Controversial Idea: Resist for dots

Feedback and Suggestions
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Hello y’all. Today idea is one I work shopped in my head for a while. Currently dots are for most part treated in a way where mitigating them is challenging because while they do damage, they largely bypass most standard forms of reduction.

The solution to this cancerous problem can be taken straight out of grimdawn and TQ. Treat each dot as a different attack type

This allows us to individually target resist for each dot. One would exist for each of the dots: ignite, poison, frost, electrocute, stun, frozen/ frostbite, time rot, bleed etc

Now resistance to these would not affect damage reduction from there upfront components (fire, cold, lightning etc).

This would make it much easier to deal with dots and also remove a lot of confusion from people. As %chanceticausedot affects how many stacks of the dot you are afflicted with on hit. You get hit and it kills cause you as example get 20 stacks almost instantly.

So how does it work? Let’s say I get 75% resist to ignite. This would negate 75% of the amount of stacks that would be placed on me and remove 75% of the stacks damage. So if a hit did 100 stacks on me, I would get affected by 25, and instead of taking (ignite stacks x 25) I would only take 25% of the damage)

This solution makes dots less annoying and should in theory remove the ability of them to one shot us as the player.

Anyone got any ideas on this? Thanks

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I don’t really think this would have much merrit.

The vast majority of dangerous incoming damage over time is not coming from ailments (stacks).

There are very few enemies that apply significant amounts of ignite or frostbite stacks.

Only Poison and Shock (for following incomg lightning damage) are common enough to get into really dangerous territory.

Most incoming damage over time is coming from enemies like Bitterwing (Ice Bats), Gorgons, Imperial Watchers or Boss abilities like Lagons Eye Beam.

There already is a stat accessable to all classes that makes Armor apply to damage over time and some othe classes have %less damage taken from damage over time.

For Ailments, the problem you described there is also a very strong defensive option: Cleanse.
Avaialble to every class via Belt Prefix and available on a lot of skills as well.

Dots will never really “one-shot” you. If you get so many stacks that one tick kills you, you did a very bad job beforehand and recieved a lot of ticks before the lethal tick already.

EDIT:
Funny enough what you suggest is actaully something that I suggested as a Monolith Enemy Echo Modifier for enemies: “X% Chance to avoid ailments”, to introduce a Enemy Echo modifier that mainly affects ailment builds and not hit based builds. (There are currently 2 Enemy Echo Modifiers that do not affect DoT/Ailment buidls at all and 1 more that only affects ailment builds)

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They are. Bleed is affected by a different resist to Ignite for example.

That is how it works at the moment. Though Frozen is not a DoT, nor are “frost” or stun. Ignoring that “frost” does not exist (though chill does which is what you probably meant), they are all ailments but not DoTs.

Why? All you’re asking for is an additional 5-10 resists & it’s not like in GD where you can have an additional 2 “things” on each & every single item plus the stats you get from your devotions & the various flavours of uniques (Legendaries, Mythics, etc) give way more stats on average than LEs.

I also fail to see how it would make it less confusing. Why does an ignite do a different damage type to fire hits? If I have fire resist, why does it not affect ignites & vice versa?

That’d be double dipping, since you’d be getting fewer stacks as well as those stacks doing less damage. So you want to take 0.25*0.25 = ~6.25% of the damage?

And apart from the Gorgons, none of them are DoTs so wouldn’t be affected by the suggestion. Though I’m not sure if the Gorgon’s whirlwind thing is a DoT rather than an ailment being applied, I assume so.

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Its both, the Blood Gorgon is only DoT, the regular Gorgon is DoT AND applies poison stacks

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Attacks and DoTs are treated differently by design, unless in Grim Dawn where capping the resistances is a little journey by itself.

To mitigate it we have two bases (gloves and amulets) as well as a experimental mod on gloves.

It does cater to all damage via DoTs directly, which is actually easier handled then your proclaimed method. For the future if the system gets more intricate in terms of itemization it’s definitely a viable option though.

As for ailments… we got cleanse for that, which is basically a mandatory stat on belts to have later on, or at least heavily recommended if you really want to push as far as possible. Not remotely needed to get to a decent state though.

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I am not a fan of flinch mechanics in games such as we are playing an arpg and not a souls game.

Having an option as a potion is fine only if you want to not build for it in stats. Enemies being able to swarm you from all sides (arpg) would work fine if you could gear out of it. Enemies that hit you as if your playing a souls game, but your provided very limited ways to deal with it, combined with stun result in a piss poor experience. The point being that the current implementation and the reality of how the game plays makes the two none congruent.

Building in resistances for dots removes this problem entirely. Now it’s no longer run from enemies or I get swarmed and I get pixeled by a none dodgable attack that stuns me in place leading to said horde mauling me down in a second with no ability to react.

Why I said before that fire lich, fomosis, and to some degree other bosses are infuriating to fight as you have to face tank them or you just die. Dots and ailements are one of the leading causes for this.

THIS IS A ARPG NOT a SOULS GAME

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“I am the sole authority to declare how an isometric ARPG should be. There can never be any deviation and continued development in this genre. Every game should be, at the core, the same and cater to exactly the same audience - ME!”

Edit:
To add some constructive feedback:
We already have resistances to the damage types like fire, cold etc.
Also, damage mitigation from armour applies to damage over time.
And several masteries have passives that give damage reduction to DoTs.

And cleanse to get rid of ailments that stack. By potions from the belt or through various skills in the game.

I would strengthen the existing mechanics rather than introducing more mechanics.

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If you have an item/affix that enables it. Just like getting a non-skill-based cleanse requires an affix slot (at t1 at least so it’s easily got).

Non-congruent. None sounds very different.

Given the infinite nature of corruption, there will always come a point where you can’t out-gear or out-build it.

Nope, it only moves the goalposts.

Or build more hp/stun avoidance (don’t do that, stun avoidance is bad) & kill everything first. Or don’t let yourself get swarmed.

Have they changed the fight since I did it last?

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Please discern here.

A DoT is something doing active damage.
A ailment is something indirectly messing you up, often also leading to more damage but for other reasons, especially if you got a ailment increasing the damage type it is based off from.

We have 3 current options to deal with DoT for every character. One is a 20% reduction, 2 are a % percent decrease through armor.

Cremorus sucks, the hardest fight in the game outside of the mountain beneath and Julra.
Well, given they’re supposed to be mechanically taxing that’s a given though.

Fomosis on the other hand has not a single dangerous mechanic outside of one nigh impossible to dodge hit mechanic. We’re not even talking about a DoT mechanic there in the first place.

Umh… you know that a Souls-like absolutely is a ARPG but not every ARPG is a Souls-like?

LE is a so called ‘diablo-clone’ or ‘diablo-like’ game. Also it has a high overlap with souls-likes, as we can see with ‘No Rest for the Wicked’ which is a perfect amalgam between the diablo-clone style looting systems, the ‘false isometric’ view while offering a similar combat style to souls-likes.

Yeah, was surprised as well given Fomosis is one of the easiest boss-fights in the game.

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All DoTs are ailments (which is why the belt affix works on them), not all ailments are DoTs.

And the cleanse from the belt affix.

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I don’t think that is true. Some skills deal DoT damage (not considered to be a hit), but don’t apply an ailment that can be cleansed. Like floor effects (Julra’s puddles), the eye beam from Lagon, or a dragon’s breath attack.

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Those are all skills though.

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Sure, but some skills are defined as DoT, not a hit, afaik.

This shows that his breath attack has the spell and DoT tag. If the data provided is correct, this should mean that it is considered DoT without an ailment.

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Most ARPGs are full of “flinch mechanics” … Hence the first word of the name of the genre: action.

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No, that’s not true.

A prime example is the Julra ground effect she causes after switching timelines. Those don’t cause any ailment, they’re simply a ground-effect DoT.

No, cleanse only works on ailments, it doesn’t remove a DoT, DoT is not an ailment.

Doesn’t matter, the distinction between ‘DoT’ and ‘Ailment’ is the important part here.

A ailment can have a DoT-effect, a ailment is basically nothing else then a negative buff of some sort towards your character, the function of it is not decided, it could be anything.

A DoT is simply a damage type which is done not in a singular chunk or even in consecutive singular hits of some sort but solely depending on the time you’re affected by it. This is the differentiation between a ‘Hit’ and a ‘DoT’.

Also not true.
‘Action’ is solely real time control, nothing else.
The opposite of ‘Action’ in game-terminology is ‘Turn-based’.

The description solely decides if you’re controlling something in real time or not. There’s also mixtures existing, like timed turn base systems.

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No, the opposite of “Turn-based” is “Real time”. Which is why you have RTS and TBS as a distinction between strategy games.

As it applies to RPGs, though, you are correct, since the community, over time, separated them into Classical RPGs when they’re turn based and Action RPGs when they’re in real time.

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Those are skills. They can have the DoT tag but can’t be ailments ('cause they’re skills).

It is true. What I didn’t mention is that there are skills that can have the DoT tag, but because they’re skills they can’t be ailments.

Is a skill, Dimensional Tear (after teleport).

It does, I’ve just tried it in chapter 9. I gained a load of poison stacks from a Gorgon, used a potion with the cleansing affix & I (magically) had no stacks of poison anymore. Why do you think that whenever anyone complaains about DoTs being too strong one of the first things that more experienced players say is to suggest that they get the cleanse belt affix?

Just go try it yourself. You will see that I’m right, it’s ok.

It does. Disintegrate is a skill which has the DoT tag. It’s not an ailment but it’s a DoT.

Yes. An ailment is a debuff, it can either be a damaging ailment (bleed, poison, ignite, etc) or a non-damageing ailment (chill, slow, freeze, etc). Both are cleansed by a potion using the belt prefix.

Skills, however, can’t have their damage “cleansed” by the belt prefix. Things like the Julra puddle, it’s a skill which does damage over time, but it’s not an ailment 'cause it’s a skill.

No, the “action” in aRPG refers to the view that the game focuses more on the action than the story, not that it’s real time versus turn-based.

Would the original Diablo have been an aRPG if it’d stayed turn-based but kept the gameplay (albeit turn-based)?

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No, it would be a CRPG. A rogue-like, most likely, but still a CRPG.
The whole reason why a turn based game isn’t considered an ARPG, is that it doesn’t really have action, it has strategy. Whereas real time kinda forces the action into the gameplay.
You could just as easily have had the names RTRPG and TBRPG instead, but I guess the community decided CRPG and ARPG to be more aesthetic.

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Hmmm, which community?
Action RPG is a bit of a dodgy term, so probably everyone has different definitions…
Yours is not the one I am used to, that would place Witcher 3, all the Dragon Age, Fallout 3 and 4, in the action RPG category, and I see them as classical.

I understand things more like Llama:

But even if we cannot agree on ActionRPG, at least ARPG is widely used to describe pure diablo-like (yes, to make matters worse, ARPG and ActionRPG are different, despite the A originally standing for action).

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Do you have any examples of games that would be one but not the other? 'Cause I’ve always seen them as synonymous.