Artificial complexity is tedious, time wasting, and not particularly interesting…Affixes need trimming big time in LE and just renders items and builds useless…
For Example
Minion cold damge
Minion melee damage
Minion Physical damage
Minion % damage
Minion spell damage
Minion poison damage
Minion chance to (add status effect)
etc (the real list is much longer)
Seriously…
Minion damage
Is all you need. Status effects should not come from affixes. Boring and tedious. Item filter or not. Minion build or not. It is just silly. And that’s just one type of affix. Clean it up for the love of fun games everywhere. It’s not really complex as it is confusing and time wasting.
So you want a watered down system?
X Damage
X Defense
I do agree that sometimes having too many simialr stats on a given item type/affix slot would feel bad.
But all your examples are stats from varying kinds of sources.
On top of that minion chance to afflict ailments is much mroe interesting than pure damage and should most definitely not become.
What you want is LE to become a much mroe simplified game, which is something many people that play the game don’t actively want.
LE already is much less complex than it can be and we don’t need another Diablo 3/4
Interesting how you made a list of very distinct, yet very good affixes to have and build around a minion build, but you did not mention the only one I personally deem useless and would like it being removed from the game, since I suppose no one really uses it, which is “minion dodge rating”.
Nah, I don’t think we need this kind of linear crafting in Last Epoch, especially not for minion builds.
I totally agree with you, my dream is that new developers also take a course in the exact sciences area and thus be introduced to the concept of Occan’s razor.
Affix compression does not kill build variety it enables it knowing we only got 4 slots to play with and half of them are underpowered unless you talking ward- in practice we got 2 slots to work with and those are just a element swap for a build
Aka every char is built essentially in one tree with different color branches.
What we need to do is different. Compress the affixed and make PROPER unique affixes that actually are unique
New Affix Types
Skill affixes: these convert a skill of an affix to a different function
Eg: a beam becomes a bomb. A ray becomes a blast in 4 directions. A swipe becomes a cone. A hit becomes a lock on orb that travels
Element Affix: those convert a damage type to another type
Eg: fire to cold. Cold go acid. Acid to lighting
Mechanical Affix: add a function when a condition is triggered.
Eg: after transplant is used, cast [summon spriggan for 30s], gaining benefit from stats
Eg: On profane veil expired 20% chance to cast profane veil for free instantly
…. Those would be cool. Not boring X increase to snot factory. Why grimdawn is cool. Want to add fireball to a sword go for it
The things you mention are either covered by uniques (which is no different from GD) or by skill trees (which is very different from GD). The function you ask for already exists. It’s jut not on normal gear affixes.
No, that is exactly how affixes in GD work. Grim Dawn does not have anything that is even close to “Unique Items”. In that game a Rare, Epic or Mythic item have mechanically and functionally no difference other than Epic and Mythic items are static, while Rare items can be combine with base Type + 1x Prefix + 1x Suffix.
Rare Items or more specifically certai naffixes can grant completely build enabling or build changing things like converting damage types, granting active skills or passive triggers
Comparing GD’s and LE’s Base Item and Affix system doesn’t make sense though, because they are workingso fundamentally different.
If you approach it from a GD angle @WeAreViledNation suggestion makes sense. But in LE they are going with entirely different design, were regualr affixes are not meant to be changing skills in drastic ways.
What they suggest here might sound cool, but is not objectively better or worse. It is just a different approach to itemization which comes with advantages and disadvantages.
I personally prefer itemization with enough regualr “stats”, as longas they are meanignful choices between different stats. Even though each stat on its own is not super exciting the combination of Base Item Type + several dozen affixes makes it interesting, which I think it does suffeciently in LE.
Giving build altering affects to Uniques only for items is enough, even though I still think LE needs another few uniques in each item slots, some which might have some overlap in terms of what buidls could utilize them so its not as clear cut sometimes when using a uniques and when a rare/exalted item.
LE has enough different other systems that already massively change how skills and builds work, most notably the skill spec tree system. Having such affects spread out across multiple different systems is cool.
And we don’t really need to give this to regular magic, rare or exalted items.
This is not really true, though. Rare items with build enabling or build changing affixes are monster infrequents and those are like uniques. It’s the item itself that has the transforming affix and it always has it in the exact same values (level dependent).
The affixes you can roll on a monster infrequent are neither build enabling nor build changing, since they consist of the normal +to damage, +to skills, +to defense, etc.
Like Putrid Necklace always having the exact same stats, to which you can add 2 affixes. But the build transforming affixes are the Blood of Dreeg ones (and, I guess, the IEE one) and those don’t need a good affix roll. You always get them. You know, like uniques in LE. With extra affixes from LP.
You both are correct. GD’s gear is mostly stats outside of the component system (which is similar to what Viled is suggesting) and Monster Infrequents/Set Bonuses. Looking through some of the epic Swords for my comparison below, only one has a set target that it drops from, but they almost all modify skills or add skill effects similarly to LE’s uniques.
LE’s gear is also mostly focused on stats and keeps the build defining items as certain (not even all) uniques and the skill trees themselves.
You could argue that a unique such as Palarus’s Sacred Light functions as LE’s equivalent of a weapon like Malkadarr’s Dreadblade that only drops from a specific enemy and modifies a skill, but they’re not a 1:1 comparison either.
Viled is effectively suggesting adding components to skills in the Forge, like Seal of Annihilation that grant a skill when attached to a piece of gear.
Ultimately, imo, the systems are different enough that a component style system doesn’t fit LEs loot philosophy and the ability to customize the affixes on the gear outweighs the fact that you can’t add specific skill modifiers to your gear.
No, that is not how affixes are in GD.
There are affixes that grant passives (mostly conditional triggers) and damage conversions. That is literally build enabling in some cases.
Active skills mostly come from MI directly, that is correct but there are some other sources that are applicable to regular rare items (like components or augments)
It depends how much affixes are compressed by. The OP wanted all of the minion damage affixes reduced to just 1, that’s not going to enable any build variety.
What it feels like you’re forgetting is that prefixes are usually offensive in nature while suffixes are generally defensive (apart from the minion ones), so there’s usually no overlap between those two sets of slots.
There are unique affixes, but they’re on uniques. Unless you’re referring to the class-specific affixes which also exist.
That kind of functionality is usually on unique items.
I’m kinda on the fence with this. I get why the devs don’t want it since it’s not D3 & they want elements to be thematically aligned & not give every mastery/skill access to every element. But sometimes it would be nice to convert skills to “forbidden” elements.
Apart from the 3-6 different rarities of them (epic & legendary then the “normal”, empowered & mythic versionsof them). Just because they have a different name & colour doesn’t mean they don’t sit in the same space.
Yes, just like uniques in most other arpgs. Just because you can’t craft on any dropped item (like you can in PoE & LE) doesn’t mean that those items aren’t uniques. D2 was the same but you wouldn’t say that there were no uniques there.
No, the crafting is completely different, bases & affixes are pretty similar, it’s just that you can’t change them in GD & Crate used components and augments to fulfil what would be down by crafting in LE/PoE.
Yes, but what I meant is that they are part of the MI affixes. You can drop 500 of them and you’ll get the exact same stats. And the prefix and affix you can get on it are your run of the mill +to stuff.
You don’t get normal (random) yellow gear dropping on the floor with skill changing affixes. Only MIs and up do that, like the before mentioned Putrid Necklace.
Augments don’t really give you any skills (other than the movement ones). Components do give you skills, but you usually only care about the damage aura ones, which are basically the same as +to damage.
The only time you’ll be using a component skill over your own is pretty much when you don’t have enough skills to proc constellations.
The only real useful skill that is given to you from outside your masteries is the relic.
Either way, the discussion wasn’t about getting new skills (there are also uniques in LE that also do that), it was about transforming skills (beam to bomb, swipe to cone, etc, were examples given) and that this is something GD does better.
Which it doesn’t, because GD needs MI’s or sets for that, which is equivalent to uniques, they just drop more.
Don’t forget the low level components that have skills that are vastly better than anything you can normally cast at that level. I think it’s Ice Spike and Fireball? But those only last at most 15 levels, usually just 10. And typically they’re for spell casters who don’t have a decent lv 2 skill to start using
