Yeah, EHG definitively earned quite some trust at the very least. I really hope EHG will be able to handle such an ambitious approach. Best of luck.
Is just about numbers, the moment (hopefully) the game gets a bigger player count, a MP competitive scene, or at launch, toxicity will come in bigger amounts. If it somehow became a mainstream ARPG, you will get all of it.
Same with “bad apples” you will get some no matter what, even with due diligence, some will slip in. Is more about staying always vigilant and act accordingly on the spot. Seems is EHG intention after all, lets see how it goes.
My first responses were based on your first line being about bad apples also being a thing within paid moderation teams as well.
My most recent point was responding to you saying ‘And if you already have the opinion that everything a moderator does is driven by bad faith’. I’m not really sure what you’re even referencing with ‘interfere with each other’ in response to that, my apologies if your comment about the opinion that everything a mod does is driven by bad faith had nothing to do with what I was saying (I just couldn’t see any other context for it).
I thin EHG and we as a community should give it a shot. Look at the community tester programm. A lot of people said this will be bad and force a lot of bad blood but so far everything is mostly civil and when Mike was asked about how helpfull the programm was he seemed VERY pleased. Sure some people were mad or tried to force “… because you are a tester…” discussion but everyone was civil with it.
If someone likes the game and want to put working hours for free into it I’m happy. If the outcome is bad get the next person in. Mods or guids or whatever can’t do that much harm if they are unofficial and can be removed from their “jobs” rather quickly. It’s a win for EHG and every person who want to help out.
As per our three outlined principles, they are one in the same. “Moderation” is not simply addressing negative actions, as “mods” are in some games. Moderation is guiding conversations, providing an environment in which people are able to have a civil discussion regarding a topic. By being helpful members of the community, or “guides”, they are already actively contributing to the goals of what moderation is by contributing to the creation of that environment. “Our moderators are community guides and helpers first, moderators second.”
I mean, to take your point and apply it to concerns raised in this thread, theres definitely been cases of ‘because im a tester’ and similar used as reasoning for attitudes and arguments, so I don’t know that the tester program is a great example for what you’re trying to say.
On the other hand i’d imagine ehg will be looking for different personalities for their guides, than those who post stuff like that.
What is civil? It has a a whole different meaning for each individual.
Eg. This player Jabba, i don’t find him particularly aggressive but you guys have chat ban him a few times for discussing/arguing game mechanics. Where as ive seen players sprouting nonsense racist comments, spam off topic politics discussion and excessive vulgarity get away with it (And i am online ALOT)
We have a standing policy, included in the code of conduct not to discuss disciplinary actions.
Regarding players you may find in chat violating the code of conduct as you have outlined - First, I’m sorry you had to experience this. Making racist comments, spam, and excessive vulgarity are against the code of conduct. And while we certainly try to create the most welcoming environment we can in chat, we cannot guarantee all instances will be caught.
This is why we are both expanding our roster of community moderators, as well as introducing a report system with the coming chat system. Of course, you can always submit a screenshot with a support ticket if you feel something is going unaddressed, and we can ensure it is looked into and addressed appropriately.
As far as something being “civil”, it means to be courteous and polite, to follow conduct of good behavior. In other words, it’s a shorthand for following the code of conduct.
Civil is a very understood description. People who insult are not civil. People who are vulgar are not civil. People who are hostile are not civil. And if you are going to question the definitions of those 3 things, then you are probably just trying to find a reason be uncivil.
This could end up bad, very bad. You NEED to make a moderator a person who knows english very well, preferably whos english is 1st language, and who understand very well english (bad english) from people all over the world. Moderator CAN’T make a mistake interpreting something that was not said just because they are not so good in english. If they start to ban people just because they have misunderstood the message, that could make people leave the game and not coming back. And the option to appeal the ban is not that good. I’ve quit PoE because they have very , i will not say stupid, moderators who didnt understand what i have said and have deleted my post (s), I didnt get banned, but that deletion was stupid. I did fial a complaint but didnt get answer from the stuff. So i got mad and have deleted my PoE account. And good riddance, it saved me a lot of money
Some people are overly sensitive, some are full of political correctness, some are easily butthurt, some take things very personal and some are easily triggered, some require you to say pls and ty in every sentence
I know there is an oxford cambridge definition of those 3 things, thanks.
In terms of the need for moderation and the resources available to EHG and where the game is at currently, this makes the most sense.
As long as there are clear policies (or even better, training) as well as proficient and efficient oversight I think this can work. I would love some form of referral or merit system, but we also don’t know the vetting system outside of what they are looking for. I’m sure (or rather, hopeful) this will be a thing.
Is there bound to be a case or two of moderators out of line, sure, but then again I challenge people to find a case study of a community moderation that doesn’t have such occurrences. As long as they are dealt with quickly, efficiently, and quietly. There’s no reason why this program can’t be successful until resources grow to a point where you can entertain the idea of paid moderation/support.
No, PAID moderators or nothing at all. Moderators should be EHG employees
Having community moderators is worse than having rampant RMT in your game imo
The only 2 people I would recommend to be a Community Mod is LLama8 and Vapourfire, no one else has earned it imo. everyone else here is too temperamental and unpredictable and is far too opinionated to do it or has a youtube channel so again their motives are questionable
Vapourfire has answered hundreds of questions on the tech support to help people actually play the game and ive never even seen any form of thanks from the devs and gets nothing out of it - wasnt even made a CT…yikes
Llama8 answers almost every question with relevant information and also can have a discussion without it deteriorating into garbage
Ive been on this forum for 2 years and theres only 2 people recommended for this. These 2 are valuable members of your community
You have no idea whether there is any comms between vapourfire and the devs. If the devs want to thank him, they have no need to show it publicly to you.
You also have no idea how CTs are chosen and whether vapourfire might have been invited but chose to decline.
To clarify, I participate in the forums purely because I like the game and feel that helping others play is a good way of participating in trying to make it successful & providing value/goodwill to the devs beyond the purchase price of the game. I have a lot of experience with IT/Support/Technology so its natural that I help out there more than in other areas that require a deeper understanding of the actual game play - I leave that to people like Llama8, Heavy etc… Participating in support is most definitely not something I recommend to anyone as its a totally thankless task and most people you deal with are angry, frustrated or desperate. I do not however need thanks, just the opposite, I regard my participation as my saying thanks to the devs…
Regarding CT status. I have been offered this role, but declined because I cannot always make a commitment to test patches etc. and I take making commitments very seriously on a personal level and could not in all honesty do this without it conflicting with other things.
I am also working in IT for over a decade now, at the start of my career solely hardware related, but over the last couple of years also in 2nd and 3rd level support.
I did hide the technical support portion of the forums since I am here, because it can be very consuming doing what you do the entire day, also during your free time.
I admire your dedication.
This is also very true for a lot of customers, but there are also a lot of people, who are very grateful, when they receive help.
In my experience, people who have a lot of expertise and people with no expertise at all are very grateful if you can help them.
Because the people with a lot of expertise are happy that they learned something(after you helped them)
And people without any expertise at all are also very happy, that there are people, who are committed to help them in a particular area.
The worst customers are the ones that think they know a lot
Those are the ones you remember… Like helping the graphic designer who lost 3 weeks of CorelDraw work the day before going to print, or the accountant who couldnt get their Lotus 1-2-3 spreadsheet to open (yes, I am that old) or the secretary who corrupted their client SQL database during Word merge (dont ask), or the eager CEO who though they would just update the old PHP version on their LAMP servers…
Those are the people who fill the “thanks” jar for everyone else…
This is exactly why I cant do sales. And on topic, why I wont consider joining the moderation team. People who talk out of their asses just rile me up. I could never pass a chance to take a dig at them
That’s fine for me. Happy to just be a baby whale swimming in the LE ocean
Yeah, most of the time, then you have the blurred lines of what is civil and what is not, and the cultural/generational differences.
The internet social interactions have always been a mess. You get your dose of trolls, people desperately seeking attention/power, and people who thrive having conversations in the limits of what is allowed. People who hate the topic/game to the point it seems they have a personal vendetta against it. People who love to contradict others just for the sake of discussion… Rude, out of touch people.
Moderation and general Guidance is not an easy task, you can have the best intention, if you fail to connect to those you’re interacting with, for any reason, you well end up in a worse situation.
EHF staff have built and earned a positive perception from their community, I really hope they are able to maintain it with the guidance and moderation.
