CoF feels significantly worse than trade in terms of the consistency of gear progression, and it feels worse than older version's gear progression

I play on Circle of Fortune and keep in mind that I am talking about Circle of Fortune unless I specifically bring up trade. Trade has issues that I think should be a addressed and I don’t see as many people talking about the issues with CoF.

Crafting is a big problem due to the high rate of bricking items once you get into the territory of exalted items. This problem gets far worse the rarer a potential upgrade becomes. Potential upgrades start becoming extremely rare very quickly once you’re out of the campaign. The odds of dropping exalted affixes you want are low, the odds of it being a base type that isn’t awful is low, the affixes need to be mostly good, and the affixes outside the exalted can’t be completely empty because the failure rate is extremely high in that scenario. I’ve also played for a long time, and I don’t remember certain exalted modifiers being even half as rare as they are currently. In trade you just buy these items and you can see actual upgrades far faster.

The following numbers are all with glyphs of hope (these also scale UP in FP cost under certain criteria and I’m not certain what it is exactly because its not just total affixes and its not just base type):

Every rune of removal has a 1/4 chance of instantly bricking exalteds. Also it can hit up to 25 FP (30% chance to hit 15 or more FP)

T4 to 5 can hit up to 24 (28% chance to hit 15 or more) (never seen it higher than 24)

T3 to 4 can hit up to 18 (15% chance to hit 15 or more) (I might have seen 20 here b4 not certain)

T2 to 3 can hit up to 14 (I think I’ve seen 18 here b4 again not certain)

T1 to 2 can hit up to 12 (I hardly pay attention to this craft so idk if it even varies)

T0 to 1 can hit up to 18 (This one varies A LOT I’ve seen as low as 12 and as high as 18)

Why did I choose the number 15? Because most items (including exalteds) have around 30-40 FP. Usually, it only two 15+ FP crafts to brick.

These odds easily stack up into the overwhelming majority of items getting bricked (which is fine until you get into the territory of exalted items). You’re also not going to be always using glyphs of hope because of using despairs to target bad affixes, glyphs of chaos to reroll bad affixes, glyphs of order to keep a roll high/perfect (jk these functionally don’t exist because of the risk of high FP costs), and glyphs of insight. I’m not even sure if glyphs of insight are worth using because I don’t really use runes of research which are how you get the glyphs.

Hitting t20 total affixes for what you want/need in every slot is very achievable it might take about 10-30 hours depending upon how fast you are, if you’re going for the highest odds of success in your crafting, if you don’t care about base type, and if you’re using the gambler. Hitting t6 or 7 on any of those modifiers with the rest being t5 is quite the undertaking where it could easily take 10+ hours of farming for one slot to have any affix t6 or 7 and be on the right base type or with all the affixes you want. Having the best possible or even next best affix on any slot being t6 or 7 can take 10+ hours for ONE to show up. If your build needs a +3 or +4 to a skill you should give up on the base type.

Combine this with the fact that the overwhelming majority of the time its gonna be on a bad base means it can literally take 30+ of hours to get the right affix for one slot and the rest of the affixes you need/want. This is also ignoring your sealed affix being something you want and not just you removing a bad affix from a suffix/prefix. Also as you fill in gear and need different resistances or some other modifier to fill in compromises on other gear it gets even harder to fill in. If the slot needs a legendary that isn’t a boss unique its far more forgiving because prophecies will spit out 2LP legendaries like crazy.

With trade these times are far lower because someone dropped the item, didn’t need it, and listed it for relatively cheap. Combine this with the fact that you can find 3LP legendaries on there fairly often and you get a system where progress is FAR faster on trade to the point that CoF looks like its only a good option if you plan on playing 1 character for as long as possible. IIRC CoF was revealed as a system that was a buff on the old system but the boss unique grind is far worse than it was in the past, and the crafting is unchanged.

The 2x increase for LP is imo functionally worthless because it doesn’t really increase what is attainable due to the seemingly logarithmic scaling for LP. True bis is 4LP legendaries in every slot but the terrible drop rates + the time it takes to farm boss specific drops that have just as terrible drop rates makes this statistically impossible and a lot of the time reasonably achievable bis is 2lp in some slots. Also don’t get me started on dropping an LP unique with garbage rolls.

Do I think crafting every slot perfect should be achievable? No, but as it stands getting one slot even remotely close to that looks to be nearly impossible in several hundred hours of CoF. Also because I know people are going to misinterpret perfect I mean literally perfect: the best base, implicits perfect, two t7s (arguable because of making sealed affixes), t5 sealed affix (arguable because of the drop restriction), and all the affixes are perfectly rolled. T5 sealed nonexperimental affix is a niche case of one dungeon and so insanely rare, in this context, it might as well not even exist when talking about exalted gear let alone perfect gear. By itself a good t5 sealed affix on a double exalted is enough to make an item statistically unobtainable so I’d still argue an item is perfect even without the t5 sealed affix.

I don’t remember the grind for exalted items being this bad even back when items could brick. I don’t remember it taking so long to get an okay exalted item. Looking at the buffs of CoF it should be pouring in tons of decent or great exalted items.

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to long didnt read, but having 2k hours previous to this patch, ive made way better gear in the few jogs to high 90s ive done then in the entire of beta.

Yes trade is better then cof after a certain point. But if you think CoF is worse then older versions gearing your crazy. I literally have filtered out t6s, I see double t6 and t7 looking at the uncontrollable sea of 100+ exalted items per echo is way too much.

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Played thousands of hours before CoF the difference is like night and day. CoF makes things so much better I would even say it’s to good BUT the market isn’t there long enough to be realy sure if it’s OP or not.

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I didn’t hit a wall of several days of grinding per slot in beta as fast as I have in CoF, and the unique grind is objectively worse. If you bothered to read you’d understand that was my point.

too long didn’t read:

What did you expect? For CoF to compete with the target farm power of getting literally perfect gear?

I would say it needs a little bit of a buff(especially in terms of allowing to target farm for specific types of affixes), but nothing is ever going to be enough to compete with marketplace.

I would love to see a higher tier version of Glyph of Hope/Glyph of Despair dropping at higher corruption levels!

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Great write up on this topic. I’m pretty much in agreement with the points you’re making. The main point being that approaching max gearing (BiS gear) is a much faster progression with merchants guild than with CoF. While drops have definitely gotten better with CoF vs EA(pre-guild) drop rates, it still falls behind going merchants guild route, which is the issue being addressed here. I believe EHG wanted two separate but evenly balanced systems.

My hot take is CoF becomes more closely balanced to merchants guild if 1) runes of removal replaced the glyph of removal (doesn’t need to be 100% success chance but makes it deterministic for the affix slot so success chance would not be guaranteed but still increases the chance of removing an unwanted affix without bricking the entire item). The second would be to lower the maximum FP hit that items take during various forging actions to reduce the chance of bricking an item due to running out of FP too earlier in the forging process. Those two things alone would decrease the amount of bricking potentially great items, and reduce the grind needed to get desired gear via CoF which would bring it at least a bit closer to the progression of buying items outright via merchants guild.

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I agree with some parts. There is certainly some changes to gear progression but AFAIK they didn’t announce a drop nerf so I am not sure if it is just recency bias for me. For example I am struggling quite a bit to find a Temple Staff base upgrade. Just to be sure I am not mistakenly hiding them, I updated my filter to show every Temple Staff base drops and turns out they are super rare. CoF doesn’t help much when something doesn’t really drop.

So I do see some changes to specific things and I feel progression barrier moved too far towards exalted items than LP uniques. The fact that prophecies being super poor for exalted items doesn’t help with this.

That being said, trade being far better for gearing is something you simply can’t fix and shouldn’t try to fix either. You can make drops 10 times better, it will still be worse than thousands of players dropping items and selling them.

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