Builds that are reliant on “on crit” are hard countered by crit avoidance (e.g. Glacier mana recovery on crit / meteor on crit / lightning blast on crit / etc). These builds also usually build into crit multiplier, so it would still be a negative damage mod.
A 30% crit avoidance changed to 30% reduced extra damage from crits would be the same damage reduction as it is today, it just wouldn’t completely disable “on crit” builds from running those mods.
Agree and also it should be a separate mod, not combined with increased monster health
Isn’t that mod there to completely block crit builds in the first place? I think with the changes to crit chance that will happen in the future changing this mod makes 0 sense because you end up with 0% crit chance anyway ^^. (unless they change a lot of numbers because people don’t understand added and increased ^^)
The mod doesn’t completely block crit builds today. It significantly hampers their damage but they still function. Swapping out the mod for “reduced extra” wouldn’t change this in any way (50% crit avoidance is the exact same average DPS reduction as 50% reduced extra). Even 100% avoidance would still produce non-crit hits. However, something like a glacier on-crit build would be completely gutted by it because it loses all of it’s sustain. Or a frost-claw on-crit lightning blast that derives its primary damage from lightning blast.
This is in addition to the “dodge” mod which also already hard stops “on crit”. At least with dodge there is a cap.
I’d be surprised if it was meant to completely block builds and was just meant to weaken certain builds. Otherwise they might as well just introduce “lightning immunity” and see the uproar.
I was going to suggest “No Ward Generation” mods, and see how that would go over. Maybe “No Health Leech”? Let’s get all those PoE mods in here, because… why not?
Would be fun to have mods that require brain and not instantly gratify every build. It would be bad if those nodes were on monolith stages you need to play but the way monoliths are setup you can simply choose to not do monololith stages that are bad for you.
Again with coming balance and crit changes in the future changing this mod now well be unneeded work they better put into different things with the release this years in mind 
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I’d be completely okay with this, with the big caveat that they make the modifiers on the echoes much more identifiable. Most of the time it’s easier to just ignore the modifiers entirely because they’re difficult to parse on the node tree.
I suspect that’s part of the point. Like hit builds & dodge, minion builds and “focuses player” (though that’s an npc modifier rather than a mono mod). PoE has the same (phys/ele reflect, can’t be cursed, less likely to have ailments applied). As frustrating as they are, I’m not sure they’re a bad thing as they make you pay more attention to what modifiers you take.
Also unless you get a high % crit avoid it won’t “disable” on crit builds. Hyperbole isn’t necessarily to make a good argument (that it feels bad/rough as fuck, which it does).
IMO that kind of modifier should probably have a cap (much lower than 100% for mobs) for the reasons you mention.
How so? I know the foreign translations are “a bit rough” (snigger) and reading the modifiers in English might be hard for non-speakers.
I think this might be about how your choices are displayed?
If you’ve got 6 modifiers in play, right now they’re listed in some weird seemingly arbitrary order (arbitrary as in 'not conducive to an overall picture of their status) and multiple instances aren’t in anyway shown in total you have to add them mentally.
I think it’s a minor inconvenience, not really that big a deal, but if I’ve got three +increased damage and/or heath modifiers it be nice to see them AT LEAST back to back so a quick glance allows me to add them up. What would be sweet would be to have a total actually shown.
Probably would need a good UI change though so this didn’t get messy so them balancing visual economy with many modifiers is probably tough (and if they add more, which I hope they do) would get even more difficult.
Not necessarily true. Take Glacier Mana-on-crit (the build I’m playing right now that triggered this suggestion). A 30% avoidance may mean the difference between being able to sustain mana or not. This isn’t a 30% damage reduction, it is breaking a build. It is not a hyperbole.
There is a difference between “making it 30% harder” and “disrupting the functionality of a build”. Reducing crit damage falls into the making it harder category without flat out disrupting the core functionality of a build. The examples you gave on “focus on player” are “making it harder” and not disrupting minion builds. A more accurate mod example would be “When a minion dies you aren’t allowed to summon minions for 10 seconds”.
I’ll also point out that “Enemies dodge” also does this. So there are two mods that can drastically disrupt “on crit” gameplay. It’s just not fun. At least there is a cap on dodge, but it also feels equally bad. Resolving at least one of these mods I think would be an improvement to the game.
Yeah it’s mostly a UI thing. My preferred experience would be that when I select a node the modifier that node adds is upfront, or even visible from the map as a hover or icon of some kind. I don’t particularly enjoy parsing the spiderweb for details and having to click a bunch of paths, but the reward icons make this much easier and smooth.
It’s probably a small thing but it’s one of those UX interactions that can make mechanics feel much more enjoyable to use. The most annoying thing to me is probably that I don’t really know the remaining timers on the mods i have active.
If I could select an echo like 3 steps out and I get a summary of the mods that are going to be added and which ones fall off that would be great too.
I thought this was one of the reasons why introduced the ‘Reduced Dmg from Crits’ mod in the first place – so as not to break on-crit mechanics. Changing this in monos just seems like a no-brainer. Not sure why there would be any resistance to it, since the dmg-reduction provided wouldn’t change, it just wouldn’t break builds with on-crit mechanics.
Personally, being someone that has to deal with data on a daily basis, I’d quite like to see the modifiers sorted based on remaining duration (rather than what I would assume is oldest mod at the top, newest at the bottom).
Than have a separate section that totals them up with the ability to minimise/hide either section.
UX issues, two suggestions:
I’m guessing that was not meant as a reply to me? I was responding/trying to clarify Llama’s question about Bakageyama’s ‘difficult to parse on the node tree comment.’ I wasn’t trying to agree or refute the stuff about crit damage stuff.
This is exactly what I meant, absolutely. Completely agree.
I do think @Bakageyama ask about showing ‘results’ if you’re looking three nodes ahead is interesting but given the nature of the mono (i think unless you do a shrine don’t you only see like two ahead?) this might be pretty difficult, because they’d have to take into account when something drops off yadayadayada. Doable, sure, but might be ‘overkill?’
Yeah, I thought I hit one reply, but looks like it was another one. This is what happens when you play Single-Dad for 4 days, and rack up about 3 hours of sleep in 4 nights.
Next time (or first time) you’re on the East Coast of the US, let me buy you a bunch of beers. 
All % increased modifiers are additive, all % more modifiers are multiplicative (& I think the only more modifier in monos is corruption).
Does Atlanta count as East Coast?