There are a number of changes Mike has talked about regarding potential changes to late game progression that could help alleviate this issue. The first, and most obvious, would be the Favor System – which has thus far been touted as some kind of late game meta progression system that’ll be separate from other systems. However, considering it’s still very likely in the concepting phase there isn’t much known about it beyond the few instances it’s been brought up in the dev streams. In addition to this, Mike also discusses how they plan to slow the late game (level 95+) leveling speed and possibly shift some of the power skills provide to gear instead.
June 24, 2022 Dev Stream - again, talks to how they’re looking to add a more interesting tail to endgame progression and finishing off a build
August 12, 2022 Dev Stream (1) - talks to how late game progression is not quite as good as it should be and how a few changes at the top end could help resolve this
August 12, 2022 Dev Stream (2) - continues where the previous left off, specifically talking to the Favor System being apart of those changes
August 19, 2022 Dev Stream - probably the most descriptive high-level discussion about the Favor System thus far
Though, talking specifically to shifting more power to gear, this was brought up more recently during the Multiplayer Dev Q&A with Zizaran, in which they provided some further information on their plans:
So, at the very least, they’re aware of the issue and have some plans to help alleviate it in the future, though we don’t know the full extent of these changes just quite yet.
by the time i get to the mid-80s i lose interest and start another character.
(altoholics anonymous meets on the second thursday of each month, if that month includes a full Moon that falls on an odd-numbered friday. i’d go to the meetings , but i’m usually busy leveling a new toon)
Which has its own set of consequences.
Before 1.0 or at 1.0 they’ll likely do a very thorough balance pass. Which such ideas like the OP/yours have implications for ( I seem to remember reading a Dev post about this, but cannot find it).
Im sure it does have its own set of consequences. but this way would keep power creep at bay. Anybody who plays PoE regularly knows how much of a slippery slope power creep is. Plus, at the same time, it would address the feeling of “whats the point of continuing” that this topic brings up.
Keeping power creep in check is crucial, especially in LE, where all current content is already doable with a wide variety of builds.
I feel like skill level progression is in a good spot and would prefer it stay where it is. IMO, any stretching out of it would negatively impact experimentation and adaptation by making respecs more cumbersome, and that is one of the things I like most about LE. I feel like we have a nice medium ground between full power skill swapping on the fly (which is awful) and long catchup grinds to try new skills at a decent power level (which is also awful).
If “I hit max level on my skills well before my character was max level” is an actual problem (and I don’t really agree that it is), I’d rather that problem be solved in a way that doesn’t disrupt that medium ground.
Yeah, I agree. The talk of slowing down leveling just has me worried, as it is already enough of a chore to grind through 90-100, with nothing to show for it, except those last few novelty passive points.
Slowing down leveling, or skill leveling won’t have a positive impact on the game, imho. It will just discourage alt-play, and people will burn out far faster than otherwise. Having a fun, impactful experience is the key to retention. Not some artificial gateway on progression – I’ve never quit a game I was having too much fun playing, regardless of how fast I leveled. I normally quit games when I reach the “why does it even matter” stage, when the time-investment far outweighs the fun-payout.
The opposite is also a problem, like POE and Grim Dawn have. Where you need to invest far too many hours/grind/levels just to enable the build you are going for. I never understand build-enabling items that are ultra-rare, or require a level > 80% the max level of the game. It’s like “hi, congrats on finally being able to play your build… for your final 5 levels until max!”.
All I suggested was slowing down skill progression, it doesnt have to mean you hit max level at player level 100. I dont care either way. Instead of capping out at level 75, make it 80-85. Increasing cap is not the answer, especially since like Bronco mentioned, a lot of us dont even see a problem here, including myself.
Depends on the game, to me level 95 is still pretty low in PoE, you are about 44% of the way to 100 (roughly as 97.5 is 50%) it took me 24 /days to hit 100 on my first character, the quickest I did was just under 5 days and you actually have a lot of room to grow with 5 more points after you also have money to burn. The main reason is jewel sockets and PoEs flexible tree which other games dont have
Whereas in LE 95 is meaningless either way compared to 90/95/100 doesnt feel any different.
Grim Dawn just hands you level 100 but also wont let you roll your end game gear until 94, so making new characters feels like shit, You steamroll on a leveling build then respec at 94, play for a few hours and have nothing to do
Which is intensely stupid on POE’s part, given how little impact 5 passive points are going to make by that point in your build. 90+ is just as meaningless most of the time in POE.
I hit 100 once thanks to trade rota’s, but now usually top out at 90, 92-93 if I am still having fun.
Chris’ “vision” is starting to bite the game in the ass, the retention numbers right now are absolutely garbage! Fingers crossed big time PoE2 changes up the formula a bit.
It’s unlikely since it’s mainly a new campaign (and base classes, ascendancies, gem-socketting shenanigans), unless they change the xp formula for the original campaign as well.
Some high tier builds in PoE gain massive amounts of power for a skill point at 95+ and some dont even work well until 94+ unless you have insane gear, namely Aura/Attribute stackers gain tremendous power, but the main reason is you continually refine your passives until they are basically perfect, you drop nodes here you dont need to pickup something else now
For example you hit 97, at the same time your Enlighten gem levels up giving you 1% more mana available, which means you can now level up/use Clarity Aura and drop a few mana nodes which freeing up 3-4 points at 97 is huge, that could be a jewel socket with 45% crit multi
Yeah most people stop at 92-93 because of XP loss, if XP loss didnt exist, most people would play to around 96-97 easily, maybe even do 100
You arent lying, the xp loss is real! There have been so many times when I was ready to go for an end game boss, but was 90% to a level (around 92+ like you said) so I just mapped till I dinged.
You are also right in saying those points after 95 are in fact crucial to some builds. I have played ssf exclusively for some time, but always wanted to build an aura bot. With those builds you could do a lot with the extra levels.
What if Bonus Skill Level affixes had two modes? Keep the one we all know and love, that provides +1 to +4 to our skills, with some bonus fitting for them. Then, we have a second variety that provides “bonus max level” and eliminate the secondary effects for these affixes, say with a range from +2 to +10 [+2, +3, +4, +5, +6, +8, +10] - allowing players who enjoy the xp grind to push some of their stretch-goals into gear affixes.
The main point would be that these affix-types only increase the max level - not the current skill-level, so players need to continue levelling their skills after adding them. And for an example of an item that would greatly benefit from this: Call of the Tundra. With it’s wide range of “bonus level” affix for Warcry, and the inherent -1 from forcing you to allocate a node that no longer has any effects to get to the nodes behind it, it would benefit greatly from a much wider range of available levels.
There’s only ever one choice for that, whatever gives the most levels. The time required to lvl them up is largely irrelevant, especially at the end game, so all you’d be doing is giving a massive increase in available levels.
The time to level up to 20 is largely irrelevant, I’ll give you - but that doesn’t need to hold true if Dynamic Level maximum is introduced. And while right now, the extra effects from Static Level affixes are generally ignored in favor of the levels themselves, that also doesn’t need to hold true - but I really do try to leave balance decisions to the team at EHG.
