Campaign Skip

[Gurkha]

Hey fellow Travelers!

Might be an unpopular one but who knows, just wanted to throw it out there. From other feedback in forums, a Campaign Skip has been requested and discussed. What are your thoughts on doing this, but monetized? Ex: $5 to jump to lvl 55, End of Time, with Rare starter gear?

I bring this up because it is done in some other games. I’ve used the example of EverQuest (not an ARPG, I know!) where you can pay a few bucks and jump to lvl 85 with decent gear for your class. Best thing in the world for alts.

Absolutely, there are drawbacks to this. Could be seen as PTW, not everyone could afford, etc. But it does solve the player ‘time’ issue and also helps with EHG funding, which is good. If I could save hours of time for $5 (just an example), sign me up! Maybe put it behind ‘must have a character that has completed the campaign’ or something. Any thoughts on this? Thanks all and have fun!

[TriKster]

Needed to change my text entirely and calm down first. But my simple answer is: Please don’t.

[DJSamhein]

@Gurkha

What are your thoughts on doing this, but monetized?

EHG has repeatedly said that there will be no P2W features like this. Even if something like a pet picking up gold was implemented (not likely, but if it did) they said that everyone would get a free pet for the same feature.
So a campaign skip, if it happens, will always be available to everyone, not just people that pay.

Besides, you already have a sort of campaign skip where you don’t have to do most of the campaign. And it will get further tweaked so that you can skip it more reliably, especially the first dungeon that is currently too hard for a new character.

[PvtVlad]

@Gurkha

Might be an unpopular one but who knows

That’s a nice way to put it

[peinshakoff]

@Gurkha

What are your thoughts on doing this, but monetized? Ex: $5 to jump to lvl 55

Save this trash for another arpg, we are OK with free stash tabs and dungeons shortcuts

[Makszi]

No
Please
Never
No

Right now you can skip the entire campaign in a couple hours or a few hours …

[Thehell881]

They just can doing like Diablo 4 that it, end camp with 1 char and them go to end game

[Llama8]

D4’s world was structured to enable that though, LE’s isn’t.

[nemek]

While I disagree about paying for alts, I find idea to get an alt “”“ready”“” quicker would bé nice.

I started my first alt and found very boring spending hours just to get last specialization slots, full idol slots and the “free” passive points…

I may understand it is required for first character or new cycle (and still bé discussed for alts in same cycle), but I see no reason to loose so much hours to get them.

If I compare to D3 alts get paragon (which offer XP and stat boost) for new characters.

[DJSamhein]

@nemek

If I compare to D3 alts get paragon (which offer XP and stat boost) for new characters.

In LE you don’t have paragon levels, but you can use low level uniques with LP to have absurdly powerful twink items to finish the campaign and level up really fast. Not to mention the already mentioned campaign skips already in place.

Also, and don’t take this as an insult, D3 isn’t a good game to compare to LE.

[nemek]

@DJSamhein

In LE you don’t have paragon levels

I agree that why I suggested to offer the three mentioned points: specialization (level 50), idols and passives.

@DJSamhein

you can use low level uniques with LP

As novice alt, I pick this advice I suppose you can also do it with rare based on low level base item. I suppose forging dont change level requirement? May be complex to find these with good forging potential?

@DJSamhein

Not to mention the already mentioned campaign skips already in place

You dont miss sustain/dmg for non skippable content?

At least I got my “requirement” early (before Lagon). Dont remember chapter I left campaign for monoliths. Only one issue: most items are above my current level but they gave good amount of recyclable shards to upgrade my current ones (as long as they have enough forging potential.

@DJSamhein

Also, and don’t take this as an insult, D3 isn’t a good game to compare to LE.

I dont even saw “negativity” until you mentionned it!

[Airowird]

@nemek

As novice alt, I pick this advice I suppose you can also do it with rare based on low level base item. I suppose forging dont change level requirement? May be complex to find these with good forging potential?

Nope, rares level requirement scales up with both their base item and the amount of affix tiers on them.

Legendaries used to go up in level requirement as well, but they eventually decided that it would negate the point of upgrading levelling uniques into legendary.

So yes, you can slap a T7 +melee roll into a Hammer of Lorent and still have it be level 1 required

[DJSamhein]

@nemek

As novice alt, I pick this advice I suppose you can also do it with rare based on low level base item. I suppose forging dont change level requirement? May be complex to find these with good forging potential?

Low level rares will have low tier affixes. And crafting increases the level requirements.
But if you use an LP unique, you can slam an exalted in there and the level will stay the same.

@nemek

You dont miss sustain/dmg for non skippable content?

Dungeons are being reworked so that they are easy to complete with a low level character. And if you use them they already give you some of the quest/passives, which means that you only need to do a few quests in Act 9, which is where you end up after doing the dungeon skips.
Eventually they want to add more ways of getting these idol/passive points as well, like in the normal monolith quests or some other way, but for now, you can do it that way.

[Kulze]

@Gurkha

a Campaign Skip has been requested and discussed.

There is one available, skipping through the Dungeons is a viable option starting with your second character. It substantially decreases the time needed in the campaign to a really small amount (roughly 2 hours instead of commonly around 10).

The quest management is still a bit wonky with it and annoying, but those things have been said are on the screen of EHG.

@Gurkha

where you can pay a few bucks and jump to lvl 85

Ah, so… pay to progress!
The self-defeating mechanic by design.

Campaign skips are asked for if the quality of the content or the quality of the progression pace during said campaign is sub-par. Otherwise there would be no reason to skip.

The solution is not to provide a skip but to properly improve the campaign.

A prime example in difference is PoE 1 to PoE 2 in that regard as well. PoE 1 has a very boring campaign, no challenge, you’re slow, nothing is unlocked and it’s very repetitive gameplay-wise.
PoE 2 in comparison has shorter segments between mechanical bosses, those bosses are - outside of a few builds - a decent challenge or even a hard challenge to overcome, hence causing the campaign to be enjoyable even at the second or third time.

Presentation of the content is key, not skipping it to get to ‘better’ content. A game should be fun from the first to the last minute, not a snooze-festival until you’re 10+ (or more) hours in.

@Gurkha

Could be seen as PTW

Wrong word, remove ‘Could’ with ‘Will’. Actually just write ‘It is’ simply, because that’s exactly it.

If EHG implements a single P2W thing I’m gone, easy as that. And I’ll make darn well sure to drag every single person I know away from aproduct which offers any form of active P2W content.

It’s why I don’t play Torchlight Infinite and nobody I know does anymore either.
P2W mechanics are the bane of gaming, they’re a cancer to be removed, they’re disgusting bile in the industry… you get the gist.
I’ll gladly spit on every single suggestion which bases itself on a P2W basis.

@nemek

While I disagree about paying for alts, I find idea to get an alt “”“ready”“” quicker would bé nice.

You have the option, dungeon skips exist for that specific reason, severely cutting down the needed time.

@nemek

I suppose you can also do it with rare based on low level base item.

Absolutely! It’s extremely easy to prepare those items beforehand as well, makes the campaign really really quick for little time-investment.

@nemek

You dont miss sustain/dmg for non skippable content?

Nope, it’s a bit of a hassle still (which needs to be more streamlined) but you don’t need to finish every idol or passive point related quest. There’s an upper limit of them and there’s currently more available in total then needed. Hence with some basic knowledge you can skip those.

Albeit what I would enjoy to see is a helping trigger when using the first dungeon skip to start highlighting an optimized route for the campaign to make it a bit more braindead.

[Scipo0419]

@Kulze

There is one available, skipping through the Dungeons is a viable option starting with your second character. It substantially decreases the time needed in the campaign to a really small amount (roughly 2 hours instead of commonly around 10).

I know D3 isn’t the best example, but Chronicon allow you to start a new character and immediately walk into the endgame area once you’ve beaten the campaign once. A similar feature would be nice in Last Epoch: You spawn in on a fresh character and one of your shades (from the old Mastery selection quest) is standing nearby with a quest. Some dialog and a “yes/no” option appears. On “Yes”, a completed Epoch is handed to you as you’re warped to The End of Time where you can access monoliths scaled from lv 1 and some quests to give you the Idol slots and passive points.

This allows you to choose to skip the campaign entirely, not just segments of it, and doesn’t require you to have crafted leveling gear to get started so it’s easier for SSF characters.

Edit: and as a bonus, Chronicon does incentivize redoing the campaign for the alternate skin. So, there’s that.

Edit 2, because I’m impatient and post before I’m done thinking of things: I’m all for repeating the campaign in games like Grim Dawn and Titan Quest. I actually prefer that method over something like D3 where you just want to immediately go do rifts. Even in Chronicon I did the campaign first on alts till 100, did some dungeon anomalies for runes, then went right back to finish the campaign. But in LE it’s a slooooog. The opening is much better than it used to be, and getting your Mastery is significantly faster than in EA, but after running it almost 10 times now I just load up a new character, get to the first town and groan at how slow it’s going to be to unlock the skills I want to use and end up logging out. I’m sure 1.2 will reinvigorate me with updated skills for new build ideas, but that early game slog is not going away. And even when you do get access to The End of Time, monoliths start at lv 50 (iirc?) for some reason, so you can’t even do them without boosted gear (so SSF is screwed.)

[nemek]

@Kulze

The solution is not to provide a skip but to properly improve the campaign.

I’m still wondering why campaign MUST be a go-to for alts

Campaign is part of game content, but I think most players don’t care after doing once. It sounds like you’re supposed to replay tutorial each time you launch a competitive multiplayer game.

PS: As I can only give heart once per post, thanks for all provided tips. I will give it a try for next alt (may be in monthes regarding my playtime )

[Kulze]

@Scipo0419

A similar feature would be nice in Last Epoch:

Absolutely, nothing against that for second characters.

Albeit it’s to take into consideration that such an implementation will need a decent amount of work to be put into it to make it happen. Dialogues, UI, the quests, the unlock only happening when your first character reaches a threshold, the scaling of the mobs ensuring everything’s fine as they need to be downscaled.

While a great idea I don’t think in the current state it would be a good choice. Maybe in a year… or 2… or later even.

@Scipo0419

But in LE it’s a slooooog.

And that’s the main issue there, isn’t it? The quality of the campaign simply being… well… rather low.

So the priority should rather be ‘fixing the campaign’ instead of ‘providing an alternative route’.

@nemek

I’m still wondering why campaign MUST be a go-to for alts

The bigger question is rather why to avoid game-content for secondary characters. I never understood this concept. If it’s at the basis ‘the same type of content’ there shouldn’t be a need to skip past it, right? It only becomes a situation when the type of content changes in some way… which isn’t really the case currently.

People want it because the campaign just feels bad. And I’m not talking about the story itself, many ignore that the first time already anyway I’m talking about how the gameplay during that time feels.

[nemek]

@Kulze

The bigger question is rather why to avoid game-content for secondary characters.

I think it exists an easy balance between:

• should
• must not
• may
• might
• must
• have to
• should not

In other words, some people suggest you NEED to run through campaign, while I just suggest to add an alternative path/choice. And every comment/description about short path demonstrates people don’t want to play the campaign but access “post-campaign” content: dungeon, monolith, arena or whatever content I don’t even tested on my self.

Just to go back to D3 (sorry but surely the ARPG I played the most over past years), they added an adventure mode which is far less boring that re-doing the story, and with its own objectives.

@Kulze

If it’s at the basis ‘the same type of content’ there shouldn’t be a need to skip past it, right? It only becomes a situation when the type of content changes in some way… which isn’t really the case currently.

I think you miss a thing: it’s not exactly same content. It is required area to go to (finding character, item, actionables), “empty area” to get through, dialog to pass, etc. but with few or no rewards (XP or items).
I finally take a look at some content about leveling up, and the MAIN advice is to build movement speed and use traversal skills… You see the issue? It’s not even about clearing area or filling objectives, it’s just about going from point A to point B as fast as possible. Is it how you play dungeon/monolith/arena? No.

[Kulze]

@nemek

And every comment/description about short path demonstrates people don’t want to play the campaign but access “post-campaign” content: dungeon, monolith, arena or whatever content I don’t even tested on my self.

Well, a vast minority plays Dungeons or Arena, hence the majority of comments aligns by design with ‘Monoliths’.

Given that the monolith nodes have been utterly trivialized with 1.0 to be basically worthles we’re ‘only’ left with 2 distinct aspects. The first is bossing and the second is common monolith running.

The normal monolith running doesn’t discern itself from the campaign, you run through the map and slap enemies until they fall down, there’s nigh no difference. The major aspect which is different is the quantity of loot showcased to the player and the game-speed. So we can already discern where the issues might be in relative enjoyment. Otherwise they’re basically ‘identical’ already.

For bossing, well… the campaign provides several bosses along the way, in a swifter pace then Monoliths do. Which also showcases the issue there. Bosses during the campaign don’t feel rewarding, and boss-design isn’t all too great for a substantial portion of them.

One major aspect which I’ll agree with definitely though is that D3 and LE have something in common… and that’s sending people to do bothersome leg-work for the quests rather then having quests happen automatically by natural progression (which is a prime aspect of why the PoE 2 campaign feels a lot better compared to PoE 1, and massively better compared to LE).

As said, I’m not against a secondary method, but given the biggest issue of LE currently is the lack of viable long-term content presented to the player which isn’t pure RNG (personal loot drops) or prone to break because of bad implementation leading to system limitations being reached (trading through MG) that’s the first and foremost bit which needs to be handled. Allocating resources for a secondary method to skip campaign is just not a feasable option, especially not if the campaign itself is currently lackluster and hence damaging the game anyway long-term. And since the campaign aligns with a better experience even for a secondary character that should be prioritized first hence.

So a alternative option comes after those 2 parts, and the improvement and plainly spoken… fixing of the campaign shortcomings might remove the need for an alternative method in the first place if substantially well handled.

@nemek

I think you miss a thing: it’s not exactly same content. It is required area to go to (finding character, item, actionables), “empty area” to get through, dialog to pass, etc. but with few or no rewards (XP or items).

That’s my point. Backtracking, busywork and the likes are shortcomings of the campaign design, as is the bad pacing. Hence those need to be fixed anyway.

So if those issues are gone, would a alternative method even be needed? D3 never fixed their campaign, D4 won’t ever fix that either… so obviously it’s for them viable to go the ‘lazy’ route. I’m more leaning towards ‘do it once, do it right’ direction.

[Llama8]

@DJSamhein

Also, and don’t take this as an insult, D3 isn’t a good game to compare to LE.

Doesn’t mean that it can’t have good ideas.

Why not, it was commercially successful, an aweful lot of people played it & “did things differently” (not always in a good way, but that’s a subjective value statement not an objective thing).