I’m so excited to play with this patch. Friggin’ heck!
Thanks EHG 
I don’t agree with nerfs that kills gameplay like shadow dagger nerf, lots of builds built around the less shadow dagger requirement mechanic that even it was a bug I think it should’ve kept the same and nerfed in some different possible way. The approach of “buff” after the change seems like it just got throwed out there without much thinking put into it since it’s like a joke of solution to compared how heavy the nerf is.
I was really hyped for the patch, but now I need to reroll to a new build before trying the take all the new endgame content, which killed a lot of hype for me.
Nonetheless the overall patch seems great, thanks for the great work and I hope you guys approach game changing nerfs differently at big releases in the future. 
Finally read all the patch notes
I KNEW IT, I posted this maybe a year ago and even god Llama said it wasnt broken
huge buff to Poison Vines
It appeared to be working as far as I could tell.
This is great! (I was a bit dissapointed when I found out this wasn’t the case before)
Thanks for everything, can’t wait to play this version 
Just… No. Mana was already very poorly handled, it’s a pain to work around period. Basically playing a build which uses mana as a resource in any appreciably fashion is a huge pain already, and just FEELS bad. So nerfing options for people who don’t want to invest into mana makes ALL characters feel worse, and characters which scale into mana get a small benefit for even more investment than previously required. This is a bad change, not only is it on the face of it a bad change (a huge investment to even enable you to do even the most basic of things using abilities regardless of whether they’re good abilities or not) It’s the exact opposite direction of the needed change. Mana needed to be less of a hassle, not more. I was super excited to play this patch til I got to this line, Fuck me this killed all my excitement, because it doesn’t MATTER what skill changes there are if they’re all just inherently more fucked to play with. Removing mana efficiency… cool yeah that’s not important or anything. Get out of here with this. Making skills more of a pain in the ass to use, making just using your character at a baseline level require significant investment does not make the game better in any way, it does not make the game more challenging, it simply adds an arbitrary gear check which now means you need to grind for affixes/gear, and hope they craft well before you can even start to play in a fun and interesting way. It’s like you guys looked at POE and saw their bullshit and were like hmmmm them fucking up is why we had a sudden explosion of sales, let’s copy their fuck ups!
4 Likes
OR they could make it so that the class was baseline usable and increased mana regen was a choice for smoothing out gameplay, instead of required to enable gameplay… Yaknow good design.
Just getting a single Tier 5 Mana Regen Affix (which is available on more varied slots now, like Belt and Amulet) gives you already more mana regen as before.
T5 = 35% = 8* 1,35 = 10,8 = 11 Mana/Sec
The T5 doesn’t even need to be perfectly rolled ot still get 11 Mana Regen.
As Heavy said, if you swap 1 belt prefix for a mana regen prefix you’ll be a bit ahead of where you were for mana regen. I say belt because that usually has the least interesting prefixes, unless you’re a summoner.
and?
I’m sorry perhaps I was unclear, I want less investment required for builds that don’t focus around mana. Not more to get slightly more of an insufficient amount on builds that don’t focus on it.
Seriously the base 10 mana regen is pretty awful, 8 is more awful. It should likely be a % of max mana, or a higher base number. Whether or not you can press your buttons should not be a major consideration without a massive balancing upside. It just feels bad. You guys trying to spin it as some kind of buff is hilarious.
4 Likes
If it would be a % value, it has to be super low, otherwise it’s unbalanced af and with a % value you still would need to invest into max mana.
I really do like this change. And it’s a buff with minimal investment and a HUGE buff with lots of investment (from 17 to 22 mana/sec, not considering the new rings and passives)
By that, do you mean don’t use expensive skills, like a lot of Sentinel builds that use Rive/Vengeance/Smite as their main skill 'cause they’re free & can be spec’d to generate mana?
Yeah, they could do that, it kinda depends on the numbers really. They could have it set that given the base amount of mana a player gets, they’d have 8 mana per sec regen by default, and classes/builds that are more likely to have larger pools such as the Sorc get higher amounts of “base” regen.
I don’t think Heavy’s trying to spin it as a buff, but that it’s not necessarily going to be as impactful as you’re concerned about.
I don’t understand what you’re aiming for, do you want them to get rid of mana altogether?
1 Like
EHG does “balance” alot of stuff with high mana cost currently, but there are still pletny of options if you don’t like a spender/filler palystyle.
If they would get rid of mana they would need to add way mroe cooldowns to alot of abilities, the question is: Is that more fun? For some it might, for other it isn’t.
That’s one of the things where you can’t please everybody anyway.
No because that would lead to less build diversity, but I want speccing into mana and mana recovery to be more optional with more of an upside. how it was before this patch felt pretty bad and mandatory, now it feels even more mandatory. They just seem to keep adding more and more mandatory affixes to avoid punishment rather than affix choices to gain benefit.
Following from my resistance change thread previously. I don’t necessarily mind the resistance system, the penetration is a bit annoying. What I would prefer to see however is the game balanced around approximately 66% of the capped defensive layer attainment. IE you don’t need to cap but if you want to play a tanky AF character you can (at the cost of offensive ability).
This change feels like, “Invest in crap you don’t want to in order to make your character function at the most basic level.” Instead of “Invest in this stat in order to make your character really good at this thing and gain added benefits”
This is just another change that reduces build diversity rather than increases it.
2 Likes
I do argue that there a plenty of new builds viable now with possibly over 22 mana/sec
And many more less viable with 8 base regen and a new “mandatory” mod to get back to where it was.
1 Like
Remember, that teh individual affixes got heavily buffed and are availble on 2 new item slots (belt and amulet) and IMO belt prefixes were lacking anyway, i personally will most likely take mana regen on every build, becauase i hate the whole “on potion use” stuff.
But i would highly suggest just try out the new changes before theoretically giving feedback.
After you experienced the cahnges feel free to make a thread and we can discuss it in detail here on the forums.
I like everything in this patch.
The mana thing doesn’t bother me. I am in the same position that I just don’t use offensive mana spending skills. I do wish that mana support was better for the option of “damage dealt to mana before HP” thing. I don’t know how to balance that without making mana regen for casting too OP.
I have the feeling it will be more difficult to stay permanently in werebear form. What do you think?