Absolutely things can change in the future but the point I was trying to make was about GGG’s past performance and them still sitting on 1-2years worth of cash after paying out double that as a dividend is a sign that things have been going very well for them in the past. Could thing change that makes their business model unsustainable or otherwise ####s them over at some unspecified point in the future? Sure. I just think
Is not a supportable statement to make given their cash reserves.
Hi guys. First post here and new player in LE. I just want to contribute (if possible) with this topic because I found interesting the way the developers want to implement trade, one of the aspect of the online videogames that I enjoy most.
So my guess. I’ll compare it with Path of Exile (PoE) because is the other ARPG I play for so much time, so to clarify: I’ll make an opinion, not what they should do.
I read that implement the trade system can ruin the game because it’s always hard to balance. I can’t agree more. PoE feels like lack of fun when looting because mobs drop so much things that aren’t even worth pick up EXCEPT when the loot filter glow up for your eyes something expensive to sell, then only that time you pick it up. So i’m in favour that if loot is scarce but more probably to be better (probably =/= always, just to clarify), will feel more exciting that if we drop a bunch of things and all are “junk”, but of course, not too scarce to feel like “this doesn’t worth my time”.
So. The main problem I see with trade is (if they were to implement it without limits): if you get all you need to beat the game through market, what’s the point of do “X” content or even play the game at all? That’s what I feel sometimes with PoE.
What I think is MAYBE Last Epoch doesn’t need to trade equipment. At this moment, there are not much things to trade, but what in the future? If LE manage to implement new mechanics there can be many SCARCE non-equipment items that can be allowed to be in a market for trade with others players:
So what I say If they implement a trade system where you trade many non-equipable items (because LE “can try” to create many of them as possible), you will not “ruin” the game as maybe it could happen with the market of equipment.
Someone can think, but if I create a very powerful piece of equipment or weapon that I don’t need anymore, why can’t I have the option to trade it? Well… Maybe LE can have an scarce tradeable item called “Soul of Exchange” -what a name- and you can get it from farming “X” endgame content. With this SoE, you can apply to a “X” item the ability to be tradeable (because reasons) so you can sell it on market for at least 1 time. So if SoE is scarce, that would make that people doesn’t use it in anything, so they will be careful to choose what they want to sell.
So you have a game with restrictions in trade system but without being not unfair at all because:
I don’t know if I explain well my idea because I still need to polish my english, so, I’ll gladly discuss about what I’m trying to suggest to clarify better.
Thank you.
Any trading mechanism that allows a direct connection from one player to another and unlimited repeated trades of the same item absolutely will be abused, and will encourage botting and RMT. Limited blind trading ala the Bazaar would be preferred over anything with an open and abusable mechanic. Barring that everything should be soulbound with a limited ability to drop something you don’t want in the current game it dropped in for anyone present when it dropped to pick up.
This is really a math problem (Probability specifically).
If you can obtain an item in 4 weeks of farming for it, it is 100% irrelevant if you found it:
Any form of trading in an ARPG is a crutch for game developers who want drop rates to SUCK and instead of fixing them, just rely on players trading stuff.
IMHO of course.
It absolutely matters.
a) allows you to farm for small items with higher probability drop chance and allow you to accumulate small success until you have enough resources to trade for the item you want. This narrows the confidence interval you can successfully farm the item within 4 weeks.
b) is subjected to the full force of the probability distribution curve of said item.
EDIT: go figure why people farm Nurses in POE instead of just “playing the game” hoping a headhunter will drop for them.
I strongly disagree with u and your idea.
If they restrict trading i will just stick to poe and only play this game like 1 day on release.
I don’t want to farm 4 weeks for a item that i need for my build.
End of story.
It’s mainly a psychology problem. Give players a mathematically more efficient route (a “meta” if you will) to a thing (items) & many will take it & that knowledge spreads & it will be perceived as “the only” way to play the game to get the thing.
PoE has this in spades, LE will too at some point if it’s successful enough (and maybe if it encourages grinding enough).
Good thing that’s pretty rare (if you’ll pardon the pun) & the vast majority of builds work without specific gear that’s hard to obtain.
I got to lvl 90 monos with this gear, so it’s not like it’s “impossible” to get to empowered monos without “4 week farmed gear”.
But it’s your time, you do you.
Stop flexing old man… Have another custard creme… 
Funnily enough…
Yep, the problem about being abused you mention and the way to try to solve it is understandable. The only bad thing about that (as far as I understand the bazaar), is that you don’t have the liberty to sell to specific people, just a random fixed ones (I assume they can be reseted every “X” amount of time?), when in reality people seems to love the liberty to trade what they want to who they want. I don’t know if is the best solution.
Look PoE, it’s a mess in terms of bots, the loot dropped is awful and countless of items worth x1 Orb of Alchemy in market (literally almost nothing), but why people keep looking back to play? Besides each 3 months have a new league (and for that new mechanic), people start with a fresh new economy. Poeple (in general, I don’t speak for anybody) love to find treasures to sell or exchange, so do I to be honest. So I don’t feel the trade system like “farm for money to get “X” item fast”, I feel like a “farm to find treasures”, and what determines a treasure is his value for the subject or an amount of them (market). Is another feeling.
I don’t say make an open trade system like PoE because would be a mistake, I say that LE can find another way to make trade happen for all, and I understand why they choice the bazaar, but it feels like a temporary solution. I play Grim Dawn too and when I finish the story, I didn’t want to touch it again. I really like the story and the gameplay, but I don’t feel any motive to farm nothing, except if I want to test other characters skills (but the story I already know it, so…). But having multiplayer and treasures to find is an extra reason to keep playing, as dumb as it can sound. That’s why I suggest “don’t give people the equipment directly through market”, instead “give tools through market to get the equipment they want, so people can play the game” more or less.
Maybe i’m mistake with my feel and the bazaar is the best thing to do for the healthy of the game.
Sorry if I misunderstood but you say my idea? On contrary, it’s a mix between keep playing the game as actually is but you can find through market the tools to get what you want. If you say things like “build enabling” Uniques, I don’t know exactly if they actually exist here but if it does, I think that doesn’t avoid nobody from play the game with your character.
I agree with you with the part that I will didn’t get so far if there is no trade system. I’ll play maybe less than 500 hours and maybe never touch it again, but not because I want to complain or something, just because is a reason why I keep coming back to play PoE. Find treasures, sell it, build my character, make it strong and go to beat endgame. If LE have instead the way to give the tools through market instead of directly giving the equipment for an amount of Gold, that would make the loot dropped a reason to be good instead of be a bunch of junk like PoE and the people wouldn’t get bored fast.
See, you’re both bad at math.
Choose one option:
Hint: I am not telling which of those is trading and which is just the game having good drop rates. CHOOSE WISELY.
Ok let me reform if they do any restriction for trading and i mean all gear from t7 exalted to legendary, the game isn’t for me.
Don’t get me wrong i have like 300h in this game and is in beta i like the game and i think this open a lot of possibilities for all crazy build.
What i mean about 4 weeks of farming i was referring to items like ravenous void with some legendary potential. If the character has the room to grow and is possible go for bis that how i play it.
Don’t let the door … and all that.
I’m honestly not quite sure why there are still people who try to compare to PoE or generally any game with more of an economic focus. It seems blatantly obvious that LE is going for a much more SSF-focused approach.
There was a very long thread on this topic over the course of the year, the last few patches and their updates over the summer seem to have cemented the approach. This game will be primarily SSF, with some aspects of friends&party trading and a very limited version of general trade in form of the bazaar.
While plans may always change, and the addition of more modes is surely possible in the future, the game’s DNA does not work with the kind of trading which is frequently being discussed here (auction house or p2p trading in general). What you are talking about in that respect is, essentially, a very different game.
The comparission in my case is for similarity between the two, and PoE have a large trajectory. Nothing more. If I hear that LE will have a trade system, I just think it would work better without trading equipments, but offering something else for trade. I don’t like the idea of an AH to be honest. Just a global way to trade with other people. But of course I see LE developers know what they’re doing, that’s why my first comment it’s a suggestion 
I get what you say. But if we like it or not, this ARPG like PoE is that: time spent doing different activities. If you want “X” item it will not be cheap, so you will farm to get that money to buy what you want. The LE way of getting items on the ground and craft them, I find more exciting that go to “X” place and buy it, that’s why I like trading something else than equipment, to not “delete” that feeling of trade your treasures. But I get it, it’s about what each one prefers, but the developers have the final word of course.
Sorry for quote you but that’s more or less what I try to say. Farm to get the item or farm to get the money to buy the item is like the same thing, but with a different step. The difference is what I’m calling the “feeling” (I don’t know how to name it). That’s why I propose not buy the equipment in market, just the tools (non-equipment items) to get them. The Glyps if they think is ok, the Keys to access to dungeons or future content, another materials they will invent for the game or anything that LE developers can think will be good to add.
But as I was saying, that was my though so it’s ok guys if you like more to not be any important trading involving, equipments items or not, because if the vision of LE developers is the way that MIFFY say, and they do it well, it can be a great success (I think is already a very good game even in beta, but you all understand).
Indubitably.
Jolly good show old boy!
You need to get better at probabilities.