Blockquote In all those years they weren’t idle though. They have churned things out all the time.
Counter point; Meteor sorcerer is still garbage.
How is that a counterpoint? A counterpoint would be that nothing has changed in that time.
Meteor will eventually be reworked, likely when they get around to reworking spellblade/mage.
Blockquote That’s fair enough & when you make your own game & have to deal with the consequences of your choices as every company/person/etc has to. Then you’ll get to have
entitled arsehatsvalued customers come & give you shit for the decisions you made in good faith to get your stuff working & out the door & tell you that you’re a stupid lazy dev & that a fix for it is trivial. It’ll be fun.
Back to the “Make your own game” argument. I remember over a year ago submitting feedback and another person people telling me to go submit my application to join EHG… You were also in that thread being needlessly argumentative and passive aggressive (I see nothing has changed).
Trying discredit feedback by telling people to “go do it yourself” is a pathetic attempt at deflecting without actually arguing a point. How is a game going to improve if it doesn’t receive feedback? You want the game to not improve? Is that what you want? Is my flavour of feedback not to your liking? How exactly should I give feedback that will be acceptable to you, after all you’re the arbiter of what is and isn’t feedback that makes me an “entitled arsehat” as you’ve obviously implied here.
Gee I wonder why forums have such a stigma of no-life losers trolling the forums for years making submitting feedback something players don’t want to do. I mean, you’ve posted 20k posts in 6 years. That’s 9 posts a day. There’s seriously something wrong with you if you think that’s normal behaviour. And yes I have a problem with you, because a lot of the posts I see of you (which is everywhere I look) is you being a dismissive or pompous twat towards any sort of feedback.
Didn’t EHG already do a balance pass on sorcerer? Or was that just a fever dream? You’d think a balance pass would rework/rebalance the main skill of a mastery.
#1 there is no fundamental reason a system without snapshotting need perform worse (in fps) than one which snapshots. If there is any impediment it is a code structure and/or prioritization issue.
#2 its not clear to me that ehg wants to remove snapshotting. Players like to feel like they are “breaking the game” and snapshotting is one way to give them a little of that feeling. I personally dislike the mechanic, but that is reality.
#3 there is never going to be a world where every build and skill performs equally in arena. It’s not possible. The way LE is designed, it is out job to find the techniques and builds that win and play that… Or struggle to find a way to make a new build win. The only “skill based comparison” one can make in arena is between two players with exactly the same build, or at least with the same class.
Too elaborate more, the game is what the game is. Even as they buff things, they cant buff exactly what players want, because players want different things.
Perhaps all the question, what competition are you trying to have? Because currently it’s is a competition of who can theorycraft and grind out the currently most powerful build.
I’ve always viewed arena as a competition with myself… a benchmark of sorts. If i want competition with other players, i go play league of legends.
EHG staff have stated that snapshotting is unintended. So maybe they want to, but can’t. I don’t know the reason, but seeing the state of balance and game breaking bugs (recently) I’d say it’s more down to incompetency. I mean, you’ve got a level 20 dungeon trash mob dealing 10k fire damage, while the other “damage type version” of the same mob does normal damage (same attack, coloured differently); basically showing it’s a unfixed one-shot bug that’s unintended.
It’s great you think snapshotting is fine, but that’s not the census most people have. You’re ignoring the fact that the game may be balanced with snapshotting in mind (or rather, subconsciously). In addition to that, if a player looks up a build guide; because they are new and don’t have the know-how to create a functional build within the new game they are playing. Then wouldn’t snapshotting be a little bit counter intuitive? There are builds out there that don’t really explain that you need to snapshot for it to be functional, so what? They are suppose to know the meta information of a build guide? Do they need a guide for the guide? Kind of silly no?
And lastly, you don’t really get to dictate the validity of fairness within a game. Ironic that you bring up league as an example of fair competition when the game generally revolves around 10-20 champions being viable the moment you start climbing higher into the ladder. So should I then say; ahh who cares about competitive integrity in League, I go play football for my competitive needs. You see how easy it is to string your own argument along to make ANYTHING you like as meaningless too?
Tetris isn’t a PvP game, yet has a competitive nature to it, you don’t need to be directly fighting someone for competition to be a valid part of a game. Overall, your competitive argument is purely down to personal preference. So you can’t really make it a point of “it doesn’t matter” as a basis for an argument.
How does this not make it a competitive game?
There is chess openers that are buttcheeks in terms of the overall high end of the game. Ala the cow, or other meme starts that are just… not good but might be easy to play out.
You have to play games in the scope that they are. if snap shotting is in, its fair game. if a character is strong in league, you play it. Thats what a competitive player does.
locking in a mid tier character, losing to a high tier character then going “see, its not a competitive game” you are actually just a sore loser, and are unwilling to take the steps to improve.
I would think that it’s more that they created an initial mechanism for minion summoning when they were starting out and it made sense at the time and was easy enough to implement. And over time snap shotting just became more of an issue when adding more and more stuff to the game.
So now they have to redo those systems to prevent it, which isn’t an easy task.
So I’d say it’s a mix of “Not easy to do right away” and “It’s not a top priority yet”. I think it likely that they have some idea on how to eventually tackle this, they’re just waiting for a good time to do it, since it will inevitably delay other fixes/additions to the game.
Where did I say League wasn’t a competitive game? Not only was I only questioning the integrity of it, but it was an example of my entire point. I don’t get to decide what is and isn’t a competitive game for you, nor does anyone else get to decide what is and isn’t a competitive game for someone else.
Blockquote So I’d say it’s a mix of “Not easy to do right away” and “It’s not a top priority yet”. I think it likely that they have some idea on how to eventually tackle this, they’re just waiting for a good time to do it, since it will inevitably delay other fixes/additions to the game.
I actually agree. Except I don’t understand why EHG have continued to add skills or rework skills without addressing the snapshotting issue them. They did it with falconer, but have seemingly ignored a lot of other skills. Wraigthlord being a prime example of not reworking their mistake on such a skill.
And obviously for most skills it really don’t matter. I mean who’s going to be switching gear between fireballs? I’m sure there’s probably some macro out there, but that’s getting into the realm of straight up cheating.
My point being, there are really only a handful of skills that should be prioritized for a under-the-hood rework.
Wraithlord isn’t an actual skill. It’s just a transformation of Summon Wraith. So the problem was already there.
I don’t think they can fix it skill by skill. They need to redo the whole system behind it, which will fix it for all of them at once.
Well, neither of us knows the answer, and normally I would have agreed that it’s to much work/too complicated if not for the examples of some of the blatantly idiotic design choices and lack of game-breaking and seemingly simple bug fixes going unfixed. I think EHG has some incompetency at the company, whether it’s due to policy (too much company bureaucracy) or just a lack of ability among individuals.
Mike did mention it again in Discord that it is a technical issue, which they have been looking at for a long time but couldn’t get it fixed.
I am afraid it’s like DJSamhein said, the whole skill system might have to be reworked in order to prevent snapshotting, and I’d imagine that would be a lot of work, and unimaginable number of new bugs.
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I don’t think Arena will ever be that popular honestly. I wouldn’t mind if they just ditched it altogether and replace it with in game races with restricted masteries/skills. Kind of like VisionGL’s old tournaments before launch. Which are also similar to Ziz’s race but not restricted to the start of a season.
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Your remarks are truly childish.
I have reached the top of the arena ladder without snapshoting. Once again, you must think this is a boring build—just like Michael Jordan ‘boringly’ won championships with his mid-range jumpshots.
While the weak complain, the strong push boundaries and challenge limits—that is the true essence of competition.
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This dude just had the gall to compare himself to a basketball legend because he created a build where he stacked cooldown reduction excessively (probably an oversight since they added cooldown reduction to idols this patch) so that he could get the cooldown of warcry lower than 1 second.
And warcry makes you immune to all damage for 1 second on use.
So congrats on playing a build that is effectively immune to all damage and immortal? That must take skill to play I guess? That’s is the true essence of competition, to exploit broken mechanics and oversights.
Minion snapshotting and permanent immortality are the essence of competition, not player skill, and everyone else is weak for not utilizing those? Give me a break.
I am pretty sure that a imbecile could pilot that character to rank1 with autocast set to the warshout button since the damage immunity lasts longer than the skill cooldown itself.
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha, that is awesome. I guess one man’s exploiting broken mechanics and oversights is another’s clever use of game mechanics?
You didn’t bother refuting any of my points, maybe you didn’t understand my post. Maybe you should put it into a translator first so you can reply to the points made in it properly.
That’s wierd, I never remember being able to see all four spawn points from my PoV in the arena. I guess we can add playing in maximum widescreen resolution to increase the arena viewing area beyond what is intended to allow the advantage of being able to prepare for what is spawning offscreen before it appears in your field of vision to the list of exploits.
What is the cooldown of your warshout? Is it or is it not less than 1 second, shorter than the damage immunity effect it provides? Does that not effectively provide immortality, and that threshhold of getting enough CDR to get it below 1 second was only recently crossed and introduced with this patch’s addition of cooldown reduction mod on idols?
Yes you were rank 1 for four seasons, and it was always with bullshit builds. Firstly zhp -200% resistances ballista that 1shots the entire screen from offscreen, don’t even need to build defenses or play the game. Secondly minion abomination snapshotting with 3 phases of respecing skills and swapping gear to create abomination before changing to 100% block entirely defensive based gear. And now this build, where you have permanent immortality status immunity from damage.
All bullshit builds that uses gamebreaking bugs, exploits or developmental oversights. There is no ‘essence of competition’ with these builds. There is no skill required to hide behind a pillar with 100% block chance. There is no essence of competition, you either play the broken ass shit abusing builds that have an insurmountable competitive edge or you don’t compete at all.
The majority of people are not bothering to try competing on arena because you have to play some bullshit ass boring exploitive gimmick build which takes advantage of some unintended game mechanic to have a chance. There is no skill distinction between players who are competing with these shit builds.
That is not competition. That is bullshit.
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Play in an arena tournament hosted by VisionGL, where you have to play an actual legitimate build and not some exploiting ass bug abusing bullshit, beat me, and I’ll give you the respect you crave.
I made the call out, its up to you to respond to it. Those bullshit ass builds have no player expression of skill and if those builds are the standard of “competition” for LE, then that competition is a complete waste of time.
Is it? So instead of numerical adjustments which at least bring those skills back into the possible position of being played we gotta wait on it being a mastery rework?
We’re supposed to have 15 masteries. So basically since 1 Mastery per patch gets reworked we gotta wait nearly 4 years to make a full round if EHG gets it together to provide 4 Cycles per year?
Gotta say that’s kinda shit 
Unacceptable pacing plainly spoken. Which is what I’m repeatedly saying: Their content-pipeline is a mess and needs severe adjustments on how they tackle content overall. It’s not working and never has to date.
And that’s a problem. Those bandaids need to be at least effective enough to allow playing those without it feeling like you ‘simply picked wrong’.
And that’s not a good state. ‘Eventually’ people also leave a game despite devs which give it their all. Why? Because ‘their all’ sometimes isn’t good enough if they stay railroaded in their thought-process. Risky but big moves are at times mandatory, with the option to rollback should it miss the mark by miles.
And I agree… just doing bandaids is bad. But ‘EHG doing the right thing’ is not something I personally see either. If that would be the case then why do we have a Boss-Ward system which formerly had the specific goal to not affect low DPS builds… now suddenly doing exactly that especially much? Or why can we skip dungeons rather then them being fixed? Or why do we have Mastery Respec rather then a proper rework of how a player is introduced into them since it’s presented really early… and hence can easily lead to picking something you got no clue about yet?
I mean, it’s nice you trust in EHG so much, but blind trust is more dangerous then scepticism, it enables people to stay in their lane when they’re supposed to switch it, leading to those exact mentioned outcomes.
And you think this process wouldn’t play into properly fixing it afterwards? Nothing taken away from it? There is knowledge behind the band-aid to realize ‘this is what the skill is exactly missing to feel good and work’, so instead of blindly throwing a option at players and missing by a landslide dialing more tightly into a reliable good feeling afterwards is the possibility.
It’s not wasted time to do that stuff, quite the contrary.
They applied tons of bandaids which gradually dialed into the actual ‘sweetspot’ before then making a grand rework of the respective mechanic. Not without reason the Atlas has been majorly reworked several times, up to the point where player-agency (the major issue) has actively been solved via first introducing the Atlas tree and then the Scarabs in modern form, allowing extremely distinct choices on how you wanna play and what you wanna see for content at any time nearly.
Same with dialing in with their individual crafting mechanics. Eternal orbs were too powerful, so they put it into Bestiary. That was still too strong there so they changed it into only affecting magic items… and there it works well! Or the itemization for finished Incursion temples since that caused problems with third party trading.
Those are all band-aids, but nonetheless they dial in into finding out the specific details of what exactly was wrong or non-optimal with those systems.
Exactly, that’s a big part of what we need!
And that’s not hard. Pure numerical changes are easily done and easily removed again… if EHG finally would get their stuff together to ignore outcries about ‘but my build mid-cycle!’ and do it early, heavily and immediately.
To dial into the specific sweet spot you need several iterations, and you can’t do that if each iteration is 4 months apart when you need 5 of em, you never get done with anything, especially not when the content around it changes and destroys the initial premise established over and over along that road.
It is, it’s what GGG’s engine runs off of partially… but given we’re talking about Unity underneath all sorts of weird nonsensical things can happen. Unity is known for having issues with a variety of common mechanics which no engine realistically should’ve any issues with. It’s a cobbled together thing that’s massively bloated nowadays.
If content is severely misbalanced then that’s a cause to speak up.
Disparity is normal… but severe disaprity is not. ARPGs are RNG heavy enough to allow success with a non-optimal mastery or skills commonly… but when that is basically non-existent because not even the RNG layer can make up for it then a problem exists.
LE has that issue with many many builds…
Still competitive, still a bad state.
How about you get off your high horse and back down to earth behaving like a normal civilized human?
And plainly spoken if a mechanic allows you to get basically immortal and is the cause of an oversight that’s commonly a cause for a immediate mid-cycle patch, no matter what someone thinks about it that their build now is ‘worse’.
And if it’s mentioned by the devs it should actively be counted as exploiting as well and hence be a ban-able offense.
Your argumentation is utterly disgusting and appalling.
This has nothing to do with competing. Competing is about personal skill, using a exploit to avoid needing any skill and saying ‘I’m at the top, look at me how great I am!’ is just sad. Makes the competition loose all value.