Blockquote In all those years they weren’t idle though. They have churned things out all the time.
Counter point; Meteor sorcerer is still garbage.
How is that a counterpoint? A counterpoint would be that nothing has changed in that time.
Meteor will eventually be reworked, likely when they get around to reworking spellblade/mage.
Blockquote That’s fair enough & when you make your own game & have to deal with the consequences of your choices as every company/person/etc has to. Then you’ll get to have
entitled arsehatsvalued customers come & give you shit for the decisions you made in good faith to get your stuff working & out the door & tell you that you’re a stupid lazy dev & that a fix for it is trivial. It’ll be fun.
Back to the “Make your own game” argument. I remember over a year ago submitting feedback and another person people telling me to go submit my application to join EHG… You were also in that thread being needlessly argumentative and passive aggressive (I see nothing has changed).
Trying discredit feedback by telling people to “go do it yourself” is a pathetic attempt at deflecting without actually arguing a point. How is a game going to improve if it doesn’t receive feedback? You want the game to not improve? Is that what you want? Is my flavour of feedback not to your liking? How exactly should I give feedback that will be acceptable to you, after all you’re the arbiter of what is and isn’t feedback that makes me an “entitled arsehat” as you’ve obviously implied here.
Gee I wonder why forums have such a stigma of no-life losers trolling the forums for years making submitting feedback something players don’t want to do. I mean, you’ve posted 20k posts in 6 years. That’s 9 posts a day. There’s seriously something wrong with you if you think that’s normal behaviour. And yes I have a problem with you, because a lot of the posts I see of you (which is everywhere I look) is you being a dismissive or pompous twat towards any sort of feedback.
Didn’t EHG already do a balance pass on sorcerer? Or was that just a fever dream? You’d think a balance pass would rework/rebalance the main skill of a mastery.
#1 there is no fundamental reason a system without snapshotting need perform worse (in fps) than one which snapshots. If there is any impediment it is a code structure and/or prioritization issue.
#2 its not clear to me that ehg wants to remove snapshotting. Players like to feel like they are “breaking the game” and snapshotting is one way to give them a little of that feeling. I personally dislike the mechanic, but that is reality.
#3 there is never going to be a world where every build and skill performs equally in arena. It’s not possible. The way LE is designed, it is out job to find the techniques and builds that win and play that… Or struggle to find a way to make a new build win. The only “skill based comparison” one can make in arena is between two players with exactly the same build, or at least with the same class.
Too elaborate more, the game is what the game is. Even as they buff things, they cant buff exactly what players want, because players want different things.
Perhaps all the question, what competition are you trying to have? Because currently it’s is a competition of who can theorycraft and grind out the currently most powerful build.
I’ve always viewed arena as a competition with myself… a benchmark of sorts. If i want competition with other players, i go play league of legends.
EHG staff have stated that snapshotting is unintended. So maybe they want to, but can’t. I don’t know the reason, but seeing the state of balance and game breaking bugs (recently) I’d say it’s more down to incompetency. I mean, you’ve got a level 20 dungeon trash mob dealing 10k fire damage, while the other “damage type version” of the same mob does normal damage (same attack, coloured differently); basically showing it’s a unfixed one-shot bug that’s unintended.
It’s great you think snapshotting is fine, but that’s not the census most people have. You’re ignoring the fact that the game may be balanced with snapshotting in mind (or rather, subconsciously). In addition to that, if a player looks up a build guide; because they are new and don’t have the know-how to create a functional build within the new game they are playing. Then wouldn’t snapshotting be a little bit counter intuitive? There are builds out there that don’t really explain that you need to snapshot for it to be functional, so what? They are suppose to know the meta information of a build guide? Do they need a guide for the guide? Kind of silly no?
And lastly, you don’t really get to dictate the validity of fairness within a game. Ironic that you bring up league as an example of fair competition when the game generally revolves around 10-20 champions being viable the moment you start climbing higher into the ladder. So should I then say; ahh who cares about competitive integrity in League, I go play football for my competitive needs. You see how easy it is to string your own argument along to make ANYTHING you like as meaningless too?
Tetris isn’t a PvP game, yet has a competitive nature to it, you don’t need to be directly fighting someone for competition to be a valid part of a game. Overall, your competitive argument is purely down to personal preference. So you can’t really make it a point of “it doesn’t matter” as a basis for an argument.
How does this not make it a competitive game?
There is chess openers that are buttcheeks in terms of the overall high end of the game. Ala the cow, or other meme starts that are just… not good but might be easy to play out.
You have to play games in the scope that they are. if snap shotting is in, its fair game. if a character is strong in league, you play it. Thats what a competitive player does.
locking in a mid tier character, losing to a high tier character then going “see, its not a competitive game” you are actually just a sore loser, and are unwilling to take the steps to improve.
I would think that it’s more that they created an initial mechanism for minion summoning when they were starting out and it made sense at the time and was easy enough to implement. And over time snap shotting just became more of an issue when adding more and more stuff to the game.
So now they have to redo those systems to prevent it, which isn’t an easy task.
So I’d say it’s a mix of “Not easy to do right away” and “It’s not a top priority yet”. I think it likely that they have some idea on how to eventually tackle this, they’re just waiting for a good time to do it, since it will inevitably delay other fixes/additions to the game.
Where did I say League wasn’t a competitive game? Not only was I only questioning the integrity of it, but it was an example of my entire point. I don’t get to decide what is and isn’t a competitive game for you, nor does anyone else get to decide what is and isn’t a competitive game for someone else.
Blockquote So I’d say it’s a mix of “Not easy to do right away” and “It’s not a top priority yet”. I think it likely that they have some idea on how to eventually tackle this, they’re just waiting for a good time to do it, since it will inevitably delay other fixes/additions to the game.
I actually agree. Except I don’t understand why EHG have continued to add skills or rework skills without addressing the snapshotting issue them. They did it with falconer, but have seemingly ignored a lot of other skills. Wraigthlord being a prime example of not reworking their mistake on such a skill.
And obviously for most skills it really don’t matter. I mean who’s going to be switching gear between fireballs? I’m sure there’s probably some macro out there, but that’s getting into the realm of straight up cheating.
My point being, there are really only a handful of skills that should be prioritized for a under-the-hood rework.
Wraithlord isn’t an actual skill. It’s just a transformation of Summon Wraith. So the problem was already there.
I don’t think they can fix it skill by skill. They need to redo the whole system behind it, which will fix it for all of them at once.
Well, neither of us knows the answer, and normally I would have agreed that it’s to much work/too complicated if not for the examples of some of the blatantly idiotic design choices and lack of game-breaking and seemingly simple bug fixes going unfixed. I think EHG has some incompetency at the company, whether it’s due to policy (too much company bureaucracy) or just a lack of ability among individuals.
Mike did mention it again in Discord that it is a technical issue, which they have been looking at for a long time but couldn’t get it fixed.
I am afraid it’s like DJSamhein said, the whole skill system might have to be reworked in order to prevent snapshotting, and I’d imagine that would be a lot of work, and unimaginable number of new bugs.
2 Likes
I don’t think Arena will ever be that popular honestly. I wouldn’t mind if they just ditched it altogether and replace it with in game races with restricted masteries/skills. Kind of like VisionGL’s old tournaments before launch. Which are also similar to Ziz’s race but not restricted to the start of a season.
1 Like