An attempt to kill two birds with one stone

This is a possible solution to the issues of “Garbage Uniques” and the ever popular trading debate.

First Garbage Uniques. I play a lot of ARPGs with my friends and one of the biggest complaints across many of them is at some point in your progression uniques go from being super exciting to screen clutter. Seeing that gold beam from the sky and saying meh, just feels bad. Selling “Gromthor Molten Axe of the Destroyer’’ for a handful of gold because you literally have no use for it feels bad.

From a game design standpoint it’s a tricky issue because you need uniques to be a common enough drop that people get to use them at the appropriate time in their progression and you don’t want uniques to be so overpowered that no one cares about random items anymore.

The LP system in Last Epoch is a nearly perfect solution and man I love it so much, but I still wind up leaving 99% of my 0 LP or common 1 LP items laying on the ground.

The other issue is trading. I want to start by saying that I am against a global trade economy and I agree with all the objectives the devs are trying to accomplish with the trading system. But I’m not sure the current solution is the best possible answer.

What I love about Last Epoch is that the game is filled with out-of-the-box creative solutions that so perfectly solve the genre’s problems. The crafting, the LP system, the way multiplayer parties interact with endgame systems, just so much good stuff. Next to the rest of the game the “gifting” system just feels like a placeholder, and I can’t help but feel that it is just there while the devs test wacky, trade-solving ideas. Hopefully all these “suggestions” posts will help the creative process.

So on to my suggestion. Guilds. When you create a guild (even a solo one) you get access to two devices: the guild forge, and the guild vault. The guild forge is used to grind uniques down into a currency with a cool name like Epoch Dust, or Chrono Shards, or something, I’ll call it Dust for now. We’ll come back to the forge in a sec.

At the Vault you can place items for other guild members to purchase with their own dust. Now a couple of points about this. First I suggest putting something like a two week cool down on swapping guilds or on using the guild vault upon joining or both. The amount of time itself doesn’t really matter to non-market traders since most of us will have the same friends in two weeks or four but a 2 + week waiting period on each delivered order would seriously hamstring a mass trading market. Next, Guilds should have a maximum number of members, you don’t want everyone joining a single massive trade guild. Finally, because the person picking up the item is the person paying the Dust cost and because the prices are set by the devs based on rarity / level / power etc it becomes difficult to “rob a player of the experience”. (ie before a new player can pick up a rare item from the vault they will have farmed dozens of uniques to get the Dust to pay for it.)

Now besides trading what else could you do with Dust? First of all, guild upgrades: increasing the maximum members, buying tabs in the guild vault, buying / upgrading guild halls (that can be decorated with mtx cosmetics), etc. This creates space for the devs to add a ton of extra content down the road. The guild can unlock these things with Dust either donated to the vault or collected through trade taxes.

And now back to the guild forge and your Dust sink. Place a unique in the forge and pay a Dust cost (determined by its rarity / level / power etc) to reroll its chance to have LP. You could use a table similar to Rune of Ascendance or a custom table. The actual odds of rerolling the item are less important than the fact that you now have something to do with all your 0 LP uniques.

If you made it this far, thanks for taking the time to read, and looking forward to seeing everyone in March.

Please do not kill the birds :slight_smile: I think anything they come up with for guild sharing, modifications to gifting, and any “trade” ideas they come up with should be handled separately. A token material to make un used uniques useful is a good idea, however it may not fit acrossed the board everywhere they may need such a material. I also think things that make any crafting too determistic would go against the same core tenants of the developer same as open trade does.

1 Like

Hey thanks for the reply!

Please do not kill the birds

No choice, they can no longer be trusted lol.

I think anything they come up with for guild sharing, modifications to gifting, and any “trade” ideas they come up with should be handled separately.

A valid opinion. Personally I don’t think the game needs “trade” at all. What I would like to see in the game is a way to share items between friends without our IRL schedules lining up, which all adults know basically never happens. The trick is finding a system that allows that without being exploited into a full market economy. Have any ideas?

I also think things that make any crafting too determistic would go against the same core tenants of the developer same as open trade does.

I agree though not sure why it’s brought up here as The post made no suggestions about changes to crafting.

That is the part I was referring to. As zero LP versions of some of the uniques are going to be much more available it could increase the available ingredients to much. My thoughts on ways to protect the integrity of more open gifting is to put a game mechanic like a dungeon or random spawning NPC that you need to go through on both sides of the gifting process if it is outside of the current session and zone requirements of gifting as they have described it.

Ah, yea I get what you are saying there. Many of those super farmable uniques are not even eligible for LP. I’m sure in a system where the rewards are based the rarity /power / level of the item what you get for spam farming such items would hardly be more profitable than running monos / dungeons normally.

“My thoughts on ways to protect the integrity of more open gifting is to put a game mechanic like a dungeon or random spawning NPC that you need to go through on both sides of the gifting process if it is outside of the current session and zone requirements of gifting as they have described it.”

Cool idea. How would you prevent it from becoming “trading with extra steps” though? As in what would stop me from going to an external trading website, contacting someone in there, and then arranging to pass the item through the dungeon / npc?

Randomness of the NPC spawn or something the dungeon boss would drop.

Sorry, I’m not sure I follow. Let’s say I have an item I wanted to give to my friend, but we can’t be online at the same time. What would I need to do to give that item to my friend under either the random npc system or the dungeon system?

First and foremost it would probably still be advisable to have limits on your friends gifting list like friends for x amount of time and played x hours together in the last x days. Then farm for NPC or dungeon token and deposit with Gregory the Gifting Dungeon Keeper/Random NPC spawn. Friend then does the same. Plot twist :slight_smile: if you sent your friend something they did not want and they reject it you get a Orobyss Minion mini boss sent to attack you next time your in the dungeon or area where the NPC spawns :slight_smile: . Yeah the last part sounds lame and more than a little bit like the D3 console Nemesis.

Lol with my troll friends? I think I would just keep telling them I haddn’t found anything good and not get orobos bombed.

But I will agree that every viable solution I’ve seen contains some sort of friends list and a cool down to join.

Exactly :rofl:

There are only 3 that aren’t, the 2 quest uniques you can get for the ledger quest and Orichian’s Petals (i think).

What other uniques would you classify as “super farmable” beyond the normal rarity system of uniques?

@seldil And these all have LP versions in Soulfire Dungeon through the Soulfire Gambler. so in a sense they’re very farm-able as well, I’d reckon.

Exactly.

I dont know, that’s a very subjective question & IMO depends where on the “unique reroll chance” scale you’d put you line for reasonableness. Having said that, there are the mono boss specific uniques that are generally “super farmable” if youre willing to put in the time getting to and killing the boss, which is again a somewhat subjective thing (whether they are “super farmable”). TBH, the wording of yoyr question feels similiar to “if you ignore speed, whats the fastest XXX?”.

My apologies I’ll be more clear with the wording. We are discussing a theoretical system which would balance rewards with the power and drop rate of an item (similar to the system already used to calculate LP chance). And since you brought up that only the specific quest reward uniques were ineligible for LP, I was wondering if you did so to point out that using a scale similar to the existing LP chance system had special cases that could cause issues beyond those three uniques. If so, what items do you think could be troublesome and why wouldn’t a system based on their power and drop rate be able to balance them?

No, i was solely clarifying that just the quest uniques (& Orichian’s Petals) were unable to get LP, every single other unique can.

1 Like

This topic was automatically closed 90 days after the last reply. New replies are no longer allowed.