Virtually all the endgame builds have at least 10/11 or 9/10 items as 2LP slammed legendary items (RR / Omnis / Shattered etc being the 1LP exceptions) including a primordial item. So i was wondering about ways to mix things up a bit. So i got thinking about having different “tokens” which could be farmed and slotted somewhere (much like the idol altars) where some of the alternatives could be
A - you can have 2 x t8 primordial exalted items equipped but no primordial uniques but max 5 other legendaries
B - you can equip 2 x primordial uniques but max 5 other legendaries
C - the token grants double RR DR bonus (with 180 total stats) but you can only have 5 legendaries equipped and no primordials
D - you gain the benefits of Shattered Worlds and Immortal Visa but can only equip 3 legendaries and no primordials
The principle of the “token” system being that it gives benefits for limiting the number of equipped legendary and primordial items thus having to have more exalted items equipped.
Don’t get too hung up on whether the 4 examples above are too OP or too weak. This topic is merely meant to stimulate debate on ways to mix up the endgame itemisation.
In other games you wear all set items or all legendary and so on and so forth. LE is what it is. I don’t see any downsides or benefits to the system in lace over other systems. Okay D4 did a huge jump with the new set setup but that’s just my personal taste and I debated a system like they invented for decades.
I don’t know if much changes if you mess up itemesiation for the blasters because they will simply work arround it. I guess people with less time will go bananas if they find good items and unable to wear them after they made some time between jobs, wifes, kids and pets.
I don’t think we se itemisation changes soon and from past debates people are unhappy with it… kind of. Restricting things by “You are not allowed to wear awesome gloves because because you wear awesome boots!” is the wrong way from my point of view.
On top of it the work needed to balance any restrictions of this sort is bonkers. Look how many people are unhappy with the hardmode boots because they restrict certain builds. Now you want to breake unique interactions because people aren’t allowed to wear the best gear possible? Nah I don’t think this works at all.
Powercreep and unbalnce is simply out of control in LE and as soon as EHG finaly does something about this issue things will change. Untill EHG does any kind of balance approach it’s hard to say anything but “I personaly like/dislike your idea.”.
I hate to say it but since last season I think D4 does a very good job with imtemisation and most other games are to much or to little for my taste or have a ton of useless affixes that could be handled far smoother.
It’s the same downsides when comparing it to a railroaded progression system of any kind.
The more open you make it the more likely someone is ‘lost’ because of the large variety of options.
The more ‘railroaded’ you make it the less variety is existing.
That’s the gist of it fundamentally.
Since LE struggles with build variety quite a bit especially towards end game that causes the legendaries to not be a upside to reduce the spread… but a downside since the spread needs to be increased.
Increased spread of options for a potential upgrade means more ‘steps’ taken until it culmulates into the end-result, this feels more rewarding then rare long in-between larger upgrades.
Agreed, primordial items in my opinion were already a step in the wrong direction.
Umh… I gotta agree with @Dubh here… D4 itemization is a shit-show, always was. Most complained part of the game, even though it got substantially better it’s still not ‘great’. It’s just acceptable now.
And acceptable doesn’t cut it for a game without massive PR staying power like Blizzard games provide from their ridiculously famous franchises. That’s a non-replicable situation.
So what i intended by starting this post was for some constructive debate on ways to mix up the itemisation in the game since for endgame builds the majority are 1 x primordial + 9-10 legendary items and at best 1 exalted.
It fine to reply as above but what we need is constructive feedback on what you think will work. Criticising something without providing an alternative doesn’t really move the debate forward.
We as a community can’t just say “oh it’s up to the developers”. We are all very critical (me included) on a number of issues but often don’t any alternatives.
There are little ongoing itemisation debates and not everyone in those threads is trashing the itemisation. Stop selective reading . I never said it’s godtier witout room of improvement but I think it’s better then in many other games. Sure it moves into D3 terretory slowly but steadiely but with the additon of the cube it’s rather fun because youve been delivered means to get what you need by grinding and not hoping for a once in a blue moon drop. Heck even stats can be rerolled on all items now so trash stats on items with good mods are less of an issue. That’s enough freedom to not be bad and you still need to play the game.
Still D4 is a railroaded experience still you can choose the track you use. There are so little options an average human beeing should be able to get it without issues. Sure it’s to easy for the loudmouthes and most likely to complicated for a small minority but in the big picture you can pick your poison and that is rather fun to me. Without the struggle of once in a life time drops and without pivoting you into a playstyle. You rather get BENEFITS to the build you want to play… that’s good design in my book.
Primordial items are the most stupid thing I ever seen added to a game plagued by powercreep… here have some more powercreep what could go wrong?
Why should I move the debate forward? Am I obligated to? I say for years:
We need balancing goals so we can say what is balanced and what not
we need balancing so we can say what is to do to reach balance
We cant tell shit right now because EHG could lose their minds about why not every build is able to do 30k corruption
So saying portion X of suggetion 1 isn’t to my liking because reducing it in the suggested way isn’t to my liking is legit where I come from. So far we have restrictive items already. Go do a search about how much people like the hardmode boots. You might want to overthink your sugesstion after reading some of the feedback already given to restrictive items. Then there are primordials… the powercreep is strong with them so people are okay with wearing only one… oh wait aren’t there also threads about wearing more and how sad it is people can’t have all the carrots at once but only one?
Sooo someone suggested one thing and I said I don’t like that part… so what?
If this is about the changes coming to the next season (?), I think you might be selectively blocking out the heated discussion and opposition. Even I heared of it through the grapevines and I don’t follow/play D4 at all.
Oh, I’ve stated the core aspects of itemization at large since ages now, not going through that again.
The devs have that information from my position I think 5 times by now, in significant detail, plus details from many other people about the issues and the solutions of a dozen different parts.
But in core?
Either item complexity (4 Affixes per item) has to be reduced or crafting power significantly (entire rework into a ‘repetition based’ system from the current ‘one try’ one) has to be done.
Primordial Affixes can be thrown out the window entirely, they were a failure, simple as that. Backwards design philosophy.
Exalted Affixes have the ‘drop only’ status to be removed, this introduced the core issues since 0.9 with itemization in the first place.
Legendary items are also not great design. Same systematic as sets… we don’t put standard items onto special ones… we put special stuff onto standard items. Wrong way around implemented.
Exalteds as ‘drop only’ is the biggest core issue here, that alone causes a significant problem and would allow keeping the ‘one off’ crafting system in place.
It’s always about how much RNG exists to reach your end-goal, and how much in percentiles of achievable power you’re off from that.
Because ultimately as @Macknum stated… since EHG has no balancing baseline they just poke into the darkness randomly and see whatever ‘sticks’ by sheer luck and doesn’t fall apart immediately. And that’s simply no feasable way to go about balancing. You need the baseline to have a metric to adjust build power generally towards as well as to create a smooth progression towards the end-result which stays roughly in line with the expected timeframe. And beyond that there form meta-builds with some fringe interactions that can significantly fall out of this core baseline… but not the other way around.
. I never said it’s godtier witout room of improvement but I think it’s better then in many other games. Sure it moves into D3 terretory slowly but steadiely but with the additon of the cube it’s rather fun because youve been delivered means to get what you need by grinding and not hoping for a once in a blue moon drop. Heck even stats can be rerolled on all items now so trash stats on items with good mods are less of an issue. That’s enough freedom to not be bad and you still need to play the game.