Allow Left-Click to function as movement/primary attack

[Uldyssian]

Even if the game holds to its plan of only having 5 slottable skills + click-to-move, it would be a great QoL to allow us to have left-click function as it does in Diablo 3/PoE/Grim Dawn where the L-C functions as a move key until you mouse over an enemy/destructible object and it casts that slotted skill (moving you within range when needed before casting). I can rebind the keys in settings, but it changes left-click to a stand-in-place-and-attack when clicked.

Hopefully we can see left-click work as it does in most modern ARPGs. I love this game’s vision more than anything similar out there, and I hope the QoL can come in line with its competition as its concepts are far above the rest.

[magaiti]

I find this game above modern ARPGs. Don’t drag it down to average level.

[Irrelevant]

This has nothing to do with above or below average of the game, it’s simply bad as melee toon to hit thin air because the enemy is 2 pixels to far away. Sure you can work arround this issue by just walking up and stepping on the enemys toes while eating attacks… no problem there, but if they want to go down that path the need to make range indicators obvious at least for the melee spam skill there is.
If they implement rogue in a more squishy matter for example he will have a pretty hard time running arround hitting stuff while not dieing, on the other hand he is surely able to wear all the plate armor there is like anyone else so it may be a bad example.

I don’t see any harm in making the toon walk into weapon range untill it attacks.

[TheLightningYu]

@Irrelevant

I don’t see any harm in making the toon walk into weapon range untill it attacks.

While i get where your Frustration comes from, due i myself “critiqued” it as first, i’d argue now against it due two Points:

1. First of all, what you shouldn’t forget that this Game also Aims to be as easy accessable as possible for Newcomer Crowd. It might for us ARPG Veterans look Naturally that Leftclick have both Move and Attack, and other context-sensitive Features. True Newcomers however could struggle with it. There is a Reason why most (modern) ARPGs also offer an extra key for “Forced” Move, because Repositioning is a keypart for this Genre on higher Difficulty and Kiting is important for certain Builds too… but sometimes an Screen is too bloated due the mass of Enemies and visual effects, that there can quite often be missclicks or wonky movement controls which leads you in trouble or even dead. That happens also sometimes for Veterans, but can be frustrating for absolutely newbies.

2. Secondly there is also the Problem / Issue, that they Core of the Game is meant to work with 5 Skill-Slots. If they would (consider) to add the possibility, even if it’s only for the Default-Attack to have an Option for Both at one Button, it would be kinda unfair for most builds, because some Builds would’ve basically 6 instead of 5 attack / skills. So if they would consider your “suggestion” they would need to either lock out one slot if they offer your suggested feature, or it would give some builds an unfair advantage over others. For an Game where Skillslots is part of the Building-Concept this thing is pretty crucial and needs to be considered. (Also i’ve to add, that even for Melee, default attacks is kinda worthless later on [from what i saw so far] due there are defaul-attack replacer anyway)

So i disagree to this Point if it comes down to “hurting” the game as a general topic, because if they would add for leftclick a option to have both move and default attack, it would be “hurt” the Game.

IF they however look into the issue, and iron it out, like add a functionality that with Skills the Character get into range of attacks automatically or rework the rightbutton that it can both (again optional as setting) “Move” and “default attack” and/or “Skill” you choose, than it would be an entirely different topic, and due the nature of setting up your own controls, you could than swap the functionality of the Rightclick to Leftclick and set forced move either to an different key or swap it with 5 etc.

/Edit:
Though i’ve to add something which need to be taken into consideration as well, is the whole thing from an “Gameplay-Experience”-Perspective. Point & Click Game often tends to give off the “Feeling” of rather ordering around an Individual, than control it like a reflection of yourself. And that’s due many stuff in P&C is often “automatized”. So with the way LE handles that, with actually move into range by yourself and seperate Attack from Moving, it gives you more direct control over your character instead of automatize it.

[Irrelevant]

@TheLightningYu

So with the way LE handles that, with actually move into range by yourself and seperate Attack from Moving, it gives you more direct control over your character instead of automatize it.

If both buttons would work on the same time then yes, but you can only move or attack like in every other arpg :). I have little problems with LE controls and if i play for a longer period the issue is gone. Other people possibly say that LEs system is not up to arpg standarts because it lacks the move to attack feature. It’s just like it is and people will get used to it.

[magaiti]

Hmm, actually I think the problem is not in left-click being move only, but in right-click working as “attack in place” instead of “moving” without a target. When you right-click on an enemy, the characer seems to actually move into attack range first.

So it’s right-click that should be fixed not left-click. Or rather add a Gameplay Option “right click works as “move to” without a target”.
Might throw in a “left click executes atack skill bound to RMB when clicked on an enemy” as well.

Or…
make skills selectable for both mouse buttons, but the other button always reverts to “move only” after selection. Still need an Option “mouse skills work as “move” without a target”. Ugh… this is complicated, because techincally any skill can be assigned to mouse button and there are non-targetable skills.

[Irrelevant]

Simple exampe @magaiti you play bear as well :). Ever ran up to an enemy and swiped and wondered what is going on? Then you move to pixels nearer with leftclick and all of the sudden you hit. This hurts a lot with mana consuming skills and isn’t an issue for ranged dd’s just in melee it get’s wonky sometimes.
That’s why I think we need a ranged indicator or our toon is moving into range to use stuff. The toon should knows best when to attack or don’t. Attacking thin air makes everything a bit strange but yeah just walk into enemys with left click.
I’m all for leftclick is forced movement without highlighting enemys and rightclick still moves you untill you are in attack range.

[magaiti]

you play bear as well :). Ever ran up to an enemy and swiped and wondered what is going on? Then you move to pixels nearer with leftclick and all of the sudden you hit.

Yeah, I had to adapt by moving predominantly with Charge (Werebear can now be skilled for Charge cooldown reduction, down to 2 seconds). Charging into the middle of a pack usually does the trick. Also Werebear Swipe now benefits from Swipe specializations, and increased AoE might help. Or not, the character might just stop 2 pixels away from the new AoE radius, being too smart for it’s own good.

[Telzen]

Well there already is an option in the settings for you to move into range when using melee attacks, it just doesn’t always seem to move you close enough. Hopefully they can get it fixed.

[ManiaCCC]

5-skill limit excuse is idiotic. We can’t use more than 5 skills effectively because we can’t level more than 5 skills anyway. While I can see how some support skills could be useful even without leveling, having some weak utility in addition to 5 leveled up skills - would it break the game? Of course not.

Limiting left button to just force move is one of these amateurish things, where, for some reasons, devs always thing they know better. I would happily give up one of the buttons, If I could map something on my left button and use it also for the move. Do the right things devs.

[TheLightningYu]

Why is it idiotic? Because it doesn’t fits your taste?
In general ARPG’s aren’t MMORPG’s where Piano-Builds make senste. They are more action-oriented and you stick by most of them to very few skills anyway. So yes, it could break the game, when the whole core-idea, the whole balancing resolving around using ONLY 5 Skills, which makes your logic flawed and your argument idiotic at most.

Oh yeah, because every developer which decide to rather to stick to his own vision, to create something unique on his own with his own design-philosphy is nowdays considered as “amateurish”… nowdays being a “professional” means to go with modern standarts and mainstream, doesn’t matter how dumb, braindead etc such features is, as long as it cater the casual mainstream crowd or salty butthurt “veterans” which aren’t competent enough to get used to new, individual things like in this case, and different control-sheme.

I’m sorry but nope. I’m not against critique and suggestions in general, but people nowdays really need to learn to get over their own entitlement and accept that Videogames aren’t contract labor where Developers should bow to investors or their consumers, but is rather art which is developed with a vision on real People behind it, which genuinely want to create something which they would love / like to see and even play, instead of trying to realize the vision of their consumers, which ends most of the time in a big mess anyway. Doesn’t mean there can’t be Suggestions which devs see fitting in their vision… but this whole arrogant “consumer is king” attitude p*** me really off.

Besides the fact that in my experience most of the time “developers” truly know it better, and in most of this scenarios the mere consumer plebs won’t even see it / think about, it wouldn’t matter in the end, because it’s their game, their vision, and that’s how they want to deliever their game. As consumer you have only one right, either play/buy a game or move on. Expressing wishes and suggestions is okay, expecting they need to add it otherwise you call them out with such nonsense like “amateurish” is not okay.

/rant end

/Edit:
I’ve to add, i’m not saying with all that above, that to an certain dagree developers shouldn’t (and wouldn’t) work with their consumers / community anyway. It’s still a “job” where they get payed for it, so i’d argue to an certain dagree it’s in their interest to hear out feedback, suggestions and critique, and maybe to also cater a bit towards their own playerbase and target audience. However they really don’t “owe” their community to everything they want to, throw over their own ideas, wishes and vision how they want to deliever the game and how they want it to be played. And the hangup for my post above was less about the actual Feedback and Suggestion, because like i pointed out early, i myself had this firstly when i started to play the game, but rather the attitude and callouts given by people like @ManiaCCC.

If you ever had atleast a glimpse of the work of an developer… than such folks might not even exist (except they are really so selfcentered and not even care), because an Developer needs to consider way more stuff than one individual, random, Forum-User… which might only see it in his own little bubble, and not really look at the picture as whole. A Game Dev have a potential playerbase of hundrets up to thousands and even millions… and each of this people is it’s own individual with it’s own taste and opinion about Games, and what they are looking for… and that’s why it’s pretty messy for Game-Dev because he can’t only consider the very few which actually use forum like this and are rather the minority which get vocal and loud about it, but also the majority of people which never goes into forum and stuff, and want only enjoy the game.

[ManiaCCC]

You took it so personally buddy. I didn’t call you idiotic, I call excuse idiotic and it’s idiotic because it’s idiotic. Nothing more and nothing less. It’s simple control scheme - which is used for like 15 years and it still used in modern ARPGs to these days. I am so used to it and I genuinely have less fun with the game in same way, when I can’t map scroll wheel to skills. Simple as that. I don’t want them change design of the game - I just want controls to feel comfortable - that’s why invert mouse or remapping keys exists.

I call excuse idiotic because if 5 skill limit is the main issue, just remove one skill slot if someone choose too - but I feel 5 skill limit is really not issue - you can’t use more skills effectively anyway.

By the way, I am game dev, I have 5 years Unity experience. I could probably hack this thing into control module in like one day (with some bugs of course because I don’t know what else is code affecting) and for these guys programming whole game is not an issue at all. This is some sort of design decision which is…well, IMHO, idiotic(okay, not idiotic, just really weird decision).

Maybe if they would just tell us, why it is this way, we may understand what is the point, but for now, I don’t see any good reason for it.

[TheLightningYu]

Why should they owe you even an answer? Why is it nowdays (and you as “Game-Dev” should understand that), that no developer is allowed to craft their own Games anymore, with their own idea how a game should be played and what kind of Control-Sheme they offer?

Why is it so hard as gamer to respect / accept a Game-Design Decision which is implemented intentionally, because the devs feel that’s how their “Game” should be played. And if that’s an issue, why don’t move on to an Game, which fits more your taste and let stay an Game as it is supposed to be, and don’t sacrifice everything for the sake of cater an audience, which might not even be their target.

I see nowdays so much complaints about AAA Companys, mostly in this Scenario, Blizzard with their Diablo 3. Alot of People claim that said AAA Games have no soul or heart anymore, but are sellouts for the mainstream(which nowdays consists mostly with Casuals), but when an (Indie-)Developer say “F*** it, we do it our own way. That’s how WE want to deliever the Games. That’s how WE want the Game to be played” > which in reality means a Game have a Souls and a Heart due Developers stay true to their vision and what they want to deliever, that this is than again a Problem and people like you call them out for that.

Your 15 Years of “Experience” and what you are used too, should not influence or impact, or have something say to how an Game needs to be developed, or even about the Control-Sheme… because Last Epoch might not want to be another one of these 15 Years ARPGs which you played, but simply was different on it’s own. And if the Devs find the Control-Sheme fitting, than it’s their all right to do so. Obviously, they also need to life with the consequences, if that impact their potential costumer. But that’s something which they need to live with and that’s also deciding factor if they want to create something unique on their own, even with the risk of being not as popular and successfull as other Games in this genre, or rather go the 08/15 Route an cater to the industry standarts, even if it means to sacrafice their own vision of the game.

But no-one can complain about the big bad AAA these days, for not staying true to what they were and what made them great, but at other hand limit exactly that developers, which use their freedom and deliver what they want, with their own vision and staying true to themself, because that’s hypocrisy.

And as for your “idiotic” explanation, i find it rather curious that you as “experienced” Developer [though i take it with a grain salt anyway, because everyone can claim that he is an developer, here on the internet], but ignore the bigger picture and that it all can be the sum of many things, like in this case, because you cherrypicked only one of my Reasons and focus on that, while i’d argue that the decision behind this could be all two up to three things together.

For one (and i’m pretty sure i read that in discord already as an answer) they want to have an easy accessable control-sheme, but before your argument comes “but i played 15 years” - nonsense… easy accessable from an factual, objective standpoind where you consider all players, not only players which are used to an 15 year old control sheme. Only because we (you, me, others) veterans are used to the controls and feels for us easier to access, it’s not easy accessable control-sheme as an fact or even good… it’s simply we don’t know it differently / better, and might been getten to old to get easily used to something new.

But a new generation of players which never touched games like this? I’d argue(and due irl experience with friends and family) context-sensitive controls can pretty wonky for newcomers… as i mentioned with my reasons above. And as major point don’t forget the fact, that they simply might to have this controls and enjoy them… and that’s their game.

That being said, i’m pretty done with this Topic anyway. My major “rant” previously wasn’t meant to anyone discourage to express their Feedback or wishes, and it never was. My hangup was simply this callouts for devs. decision. And that i expressed my feelings toward this situation as a whole, that i’m not fond of devs aren’t even allowed anymore to develope the game how they want too, and need to justify every step they do.

[ManiaCCC]

Sorry, but I am not going to read this mess.

Again, this is feedback part of the forum, so here is my feedback. Binding skill on left mouse button would be more than welcome.

5 skill limit excuse is idiotic, period. But I doubt devs would use this to explain why left mouse button works how it works because they are not idiots. So I would love to know, if there is some valid reason, why we can’t put skill on our left mouse button. It’s not bug, we know it, it’s not hard to do, because frankly, I could do that and I sucks comparing to them and if 5 skill limit is so important to them, just limit how many skills you can map on buttons. It’s not rocked science either. And maybe it is planned feature I just missed it, who knows.

When Last Epoch was released on steam, there were like 5 threads within hour, discussing why in the hell we can’t use left mouse button for skill. It will be same upon release and they will be pretty much forced to patch it in later date. I just hope they will do it before release. Not today or tomorrow, or in patch 0.7.3. I don’t care when, I just want play released game with standard left mouse button use and if not, just tell us why it’s not good idea.

[spicydee2]

@TheLightningYu

Why is it idiotic? Because it doesn’t fits your taste?

Because it’s lazy and amateurish. There is zero reason to not have the button function as move and/or action. All reasons given so far are weak.

This is a simple case of these devs trying to be cute and reinvent the wheel.

[Irrelevant]

There has always been issues with forced movement keys in the past and if they realy mange, even if this wasn’t their intent in the first place, to solv this issue with binding it to the left mouse everything is fine. Leftclick as move only is no issue for me, my issue is the “move in melee range” option that isn’t working properly.