The problem with checkpoint every 50 or 100 will still cause fishing feeling. As i said, for high end pushing having a decent rng will allow you to push much further and it is harder to get 250 ok waves than it is to get 50 or 100.
Having a cap on how far your checkpoint can reach lets say cap is 150 this will not affect the high end pushing but will affect 200-300 pushing.
While i personally disagree with the whole checkpoint system itself. I can understand why people want to skip the easy waves but i don’t think it should have any effect on how far you push.
Forcing 400 waves for example is not a good idea. Even if most people sit at 400 waves there is hardcore people who sit at twice or even higher waves creating yet again even bigger cap in wave difference
Arenas are a marathon, not a sprint, and players need to adjust their expectations according to the race (Arena vs Monoliths).
It’s about endurance. Often punishing, painful endurance.
But that is also what puts many people off Arenas. So maybe a checkpoint system would encourage more to try it?
It could also be possible to have 2 systems in place running in parallel … one using a checkpoint system and one not. Similar to a hardcore and softcore version, or solo vs SSF ladder.
This would give players a chance to push higher Arenas to test their builds with a safety net, but if they really want to join the high-end pushing, they have to start from wave 1 every time.
I think the problem here isn’t that you shouldn’t be able to keep raising a potential check point, but that Arena progression should be more about skill and game knowledge than RNG.
I mean sure practice type of arena could work to test your builds.
Yet the arena as of right now is skill based and requires knowledge to deal even with the worst situation you can get into. I mean i am just gonna use monolith as an example here. Old monolith was straight reset to zero, checkpoint came and oh boy did there come with ways to abuse it. Same would happen in arena. Arena 300+ is no joke (Monsters hit for 2k against zero prots and no dr aside from gb) and if you are not able to clear it from 1 to 300 then you are just gonna have very bad time dying constantly to every one shot while forcing it.
Monolith became way too easy and not fun at all to most people due to the difficulty of empowered ones being questionable. Why ruin arena too
I never said skill and knowledge isn’t useful in the Arena right now, but currently RNG has too much of an influence on whether or not you progress, no matter how much skill or knowledge you have. I also find monolith significantly challenging as it is currently and feel it should be somewhere between the story and Arena in terms of difficulty due to the fact it’s usually tackled after the story and is a requirement before being able to access the Arena. You also lose progress when you die in the monolith and the amount you lose, in my opinion, is a good fit for the monolith. While I do feel Arena needs some sort of “check point” or saving progress thing added to it, I still feel it should be much less forgiving than the monolith one.
From your responses it sounds like you want everything to just be brutal when it comes to it’s difficulty and the harder the better, but in general, that would be a bad thing for the game. I fully believe good ARPGs are also very challenging ones, but not so much so that it causes most people to not even try the game because they know they’ll never be able to compete with the top players or even be able to get very far in the game due to their own skill level.
I’m not saying make it casual, or easy in any way, but there needs to be a good balance of difficult, challenging content that requires a good amount of effort, grinding and playing to achieve and to reward people who do have time to sink into the game as well as something people who have extremely busy lives and much less time to sink into the game can look forward to.
No.
If you are a 5/10 player/build and you get to a 6/10 push, RNG got you there and it feels like RNG got you there, higher than your player skill.
If you are a 10/10 player/build, you dont give a shit about RNG, u can deal with all type of mobs, in all maps. Sure, some will be harder. Your run will always end to a player mistake.
If you die to mobs that are soo hard that if feels like RNG killed you, it means your build/skill has reached its true ceiling.
Can you get higher waves with better RNG? Yes
Do you really belong on those waves? No.
If your average clear is 150 waves, but sometimes you die to 130 and one day you reached 185, are you a 185 wave player? No, you had a good run, and need to work towards raising your average clear by getting better at the game mode.
I agree with most of that but being able to deal with any mob doesn’t mean you can get to wave 1,000,000 if you never make a mistake. At some point you will die no matter what.
I guess I didn’t know that. But with what you’re saying, shouldnt there be far more people at extremely high waves? as in 1K and up? The highest I’ve seen is Foe at wave 400+. In SC/Solo anyways.
well, good to know and thanks for the info. i still feel there should be some sort of system related to my original suggestion added, but my main intentions with this thread was to get some discussion on the subject and share my thoughts to get feedback on them as well.
Even with melee? There would be a point where even the normal auto attack from a mob will kill you and I don’t see how a melee build would be able to get in and survive while a ranged build would and that doesn’t feel reasonable to me.
Some things I found interesting perusing this thread:
Dodge can get you to wave 1,000,000.*
Lots of different types of players here, casual, hardcore, and other! Yay diversity!
Range > melee, but honestly… that’s every game almost? lol
I love the new monolith, but haven’t done much with arena. Might have to try it now, but it’s always been rough for me to get into the wave thing. I am speaking completely from my own PoV, but arena is boring to me. Its not very interactive, I simply wait and kill. But! I need to do it so I know what it offers, so I will.
Now, onto the topic. (All comments here are my opinion and view, even if its stated as fact. I’m just conveying ideas. )
Checkpoints for an arena like this wouldn’t necessarily be terrible, but its also not a good idea. EHG plans on having more end game systems I believe, so as the arena stands, I feel its pretty solid. It gives hardcore pushers what they want, and the ladders will be more meaningful than those with checkpoints. If multiple end game modes are the plan, one (or more) should kind of be unforgivable, harsh, even brutal. I feel Arena is that currently, just raw. EHG, lets see what you do with it!
I appreciate what @FriendlyGamerGuy did here with this discussion. I feel like it was civil and points were made back and forth. All points weren’t agreed with it seems, but that’s fine.
*: I know this was just a facetious comment, but I did chortle a bit, and co-workers looked at me strange.
Right now the arena for me is simply being maximum bored for 1 hour - half of it being AFK and the other half of it not even looking at the screen after which I’m privileged for
~45 minutes of playing the game properly.
My first thought which occurs after dying in the arena is: “Do I want to sit through all this boredom again?” not “What did I do wrong and how can I improve?”.
There are loads of brain derps, lags, colour blindnesses & odd one shots which don’t get categorized under the learning material section.
If it’s a test of skill, then there’s no skill in waiting 1h statically
If it’s for fun, then there’s no fun in waiting 1h statically
If it’s a test of endurance then it’s the worst kind - boredom
I’m personally really not buying these fishing arguments. Most builds don’t get further than something 50 arena waves from their first score if there are no improvement made. It’s not like the player gets a good layout and suddenly pushes from 100 to 200 and 200 to 300. Most of the time the player is dropped at least by wave 150 if they were overpowered at 100 before.
If there’s a checkpoint after every 100 waves, I see there being no problem in fishing.
If there still is fishing and it truly is harmful, then make the arena work in a way where it’s too expensive either time or currency wise to leave it without making an attempt.
If this is bypassed and there still is fishing miraculously somehow, then everyone who’s competitive enough can engage in this strategy - it’s still better than plain boredom of being alt tabbed for an hour.
Another option would be to simply make the arena scale up faster (:
I agree with @kiss_me_quick and @Shrukn on one thing: The current Arena is about as boring as watching a flag flap in the wind and I honestly see very little point in it after the first few flaps.
Its the same thing, wave after wave. The pauses with drops are pathetic and virtually pointless. There does not seem to be any benefit other than saying “whoo hoo, my char made it to level 150+” and other useless appendage length achievements.
Maybe I am biased from all the other boring Arena modes in other ARPGs. I have never really enjoyed them as the incentive to do them did not come close to counteracting the boredom that inevitably sets in… I always prefer to run an alt in the storyline in preference to waves of mobs over and over.
LEs Monolith is very good as end-game and temporary diversions from the storyline at other set levels and even for exp if you get the bonuses up. In my opinion it can only get better so I will always prefer it over Arena and honestly could care less if Arena just vanished.
Sure the initial remark was crude but nobody was attacked personally.
It seems to me that you have made a problem out of his/her way of conducting themselves to not engage with the statements and questions proposed.
I would also suggest you to read what you yourself wrote - if you set up standards of behavior or claim misconduct by someone then you should be demonstrating the correct behavior by example, not take out your propane & propane accessories.
While the behavior of @Shrukn was not exemplary, in conjunction it seems like he/she was downright pleasant next to the reaction and remarks made by you and @FoE; bacon or not.
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