It is the norm though because those issues only apply to ~2 or so skills out of how many hundred? Would you honestly throw the baby out with the bathwater?
It applies to virtually all of them. How many skills have nodes or idols that auto-cast them? It’s certainly not “a large variety”!
It’s not though.
To be fair, I don’t think spires stop shooting when you have minions either.
Funnily enough, I was testing it and ring of shields was on autocast and it didn’t trigger them. I don’t know if it’s because it’s an instant cast skill or because it’s a non-damage skill (movement skills usually have damage components, or the ability for it) and I had already killed the last one before I remembered to try casting sigils.
You have literal in-build idol affixes which de-rail this situation.
Your argument is not valid if a single direct affix exists which makes this option a impossibility.
For it to become a viable argument the developer needs to remove that affix, if it exists the basis doesn’t hold true anymore.
Spellblades use in the majority enchant weapon since it gives a massive amount of extra damage.
That’s… a whole class nearly which is affected.
That alone is 1/15th of your game.
No… simply… absolutely… no.
You got no basis for the argument.
Not to speak of auto-cast mealstrom, minions or the self-replicating situation of void spires which enforce usage of skills to even make it happen.
It’s a trick at best, you can’t recommend it in good faith. It’s either ill-informed to do so best-case or malicious in worst-case.
One (I think) & it only applies to one skill. So, 1% of the population? Maybe less?
Sure. That’s how it works. Lets not give useful information for 99%, possibly more, of the population just because there are a few fairly rare examples where it doesn’t work.
Yes, but do they use the auto-cast node? They could just use numlock which gives the same functionality while not having the same issue. Also, you don’t know how many Spellblades use Enchant Weapon.
But not 1/15 of the population, not even sligthly close. Which you know.
That’s projection…
It’s really not. It’s a valid thing that works in the majority of cases, stop talking shit. You know the saying about statistics & lies?
You’re letting perfect be the enemy of good. I provided a perfectly viable way of dealing with the situation & even highlighted cases where it won’t work (given I wasn’t provided with any context, maybe he was a non-Primalist non-Spellblade melee).
Yes, because the auto-cast node guarantees maximum uptime and hence maximum DPS while leaving you open to focus your gameplay on other elements like evasion.
The only viable time to not use it is when your skill level is sufficiently high to have near perfect uptime or even better proper timing to only have it up when engaging actively… which is something that’s nice for highly skilled players but eludes the vast vast majority.
15 classes, devs don’t decide which classes are picked, community does by meta.
Hence unless the devs decided ‘we design this one to be less viable then the others’ it’s always a theoretical 1/15th of the playerbase at any given time only reliant on the respective meta.
In 1.2 it might be half! Does this hence change circumstancial?
But not when you most need it. Odds are it’ll be proccing after a pack.
Thank you for avoiding the point, well swerved sir!
What you’re arguing is akin to saying that because both Quantum Mechanics & Relativity are not perfect & both are incomplete that they’re shit & we should go back to believing that gods/demons/aether/whatever exist & are behind everything.
‘When you most need it’ is during longer fights. Hence bosses or mini-bosses. Those last long enough to warrant maximum uptime as they’re also the most dangerous enemies in the game.
The common fodder is only dangerous if you do badly in positioning or let yourself get swarmed.
No, not quite…
It’s 1/15th of the whole game put in.
Not that that’s the only time it happens.
We’ve established auto-cast like Mealstrom because of the idols as well as minions (not all but some) do indeed also cause this. For example volatile zombies being re-cast is a working mechanic implemented, Wraithlord does too.
So the issue is that there’s several of those mechanics existing at the same time. It’s no ‘oversight’ but instead rather obvious the stopping of spires is not fully intended, that being more of an oversight then the several mechanics that exist which circumvent it.
Which leads me to the point why I’m so strict about it.
Design-philosophy. EHG specifically and intentionally wants people to create ‘one build for all content’ characters. This means exclusion of content for ‘specific’ characters isn’t allowed to happen.
It’s only allowed to happen by mistakes of the builds, or worst-case bad balancing (which needs to be fixed) but not mechanically.
It goes against that design philosophy. And I’m rather giving the benefit of the doubt that one mechanic isn’t intended rather then this philosophy not being upheld, because that would be vastly more severe.
And since the Nemesis mechanic can’t be handled during gameplay - without backtracking, which was also mentioned as a net negative by now years ago and hence design-philosophy which hopefully upholds for now - by those builds without specifically stopping the spires first… I relay back over to ‘It’s badly implemented’ and the methods to circumvent this design-flaw are not intentional mechanics but just side effects.
Which once again leads to side-effects which are unintentional not being something one should recommend as ‘default’ behavior as it’s not in good faith to do so, it gives a wrong picture of the situation and diverts the focus of the situation at hand by downplaying it.
Since you also say this…
Then maybe you can tell that same community if they FIND an exploit, to be responsible and NOT use it to break the system but actually report it to help the DEVS fix it before it becomes a problem.
That’d be nice.
Actually, I’m pretty sure the spires stopping is very much intended. What would be unintended is some skills/minions not stopping them.
You don’t accidentally implement that feature in. It was deliberate. It should be fixed for the rest of the skills, but it’s very much intentional.
Not first time dupe ruin LE MG and it seems just as in 1.0 ppl are stunned to see this happen. Better ask why this type of actions weren’t tested in CT or internally by the devs themself .
Dude, nobodies stunned to see it happen. Cyber security is like arms manufacturing. Balistic armor and defenses are always playing catchup because it’s much easier to make something destructive than it is to ‘pre-determine’ where there might be a weakness.
Why do you think the government and major corporations now go to great lengths to actually HIRE hackers who break systems? They get them to try to find weaknesses BEFORE they get out.
If you’re not a moralistic black hole, if you see something is broken, tell the owners/creators whatever. I know it takes a bit of character to not just say ‘screw the man’ I’m going to take as much advantage as I can, but then if you do, don’t go around whining like a little baby when stuff gets fubarred by the likes of these clowns.
Good thing windows doesn’t have any functionality to automate that itself then! In hardware even!
Very much so, yes.
It’s 1/15 of the classes/masteries, there’s more to the game than just the character, if you want to get pedantic.
My Rogue has not had any difficulty whatsoever, nor, I’m sure, will the Beastmaster/Mage I’m intending to make next. So clearly I’m doing it wrong!
It is, but I’m sure the devs are wrong on this as well, because clearly there are a small handful of edge cases where that doesn’t work so it’s not a valid solution! There are no possible valid workarounds for it! Just don’t exist!
To be fair, can be the reason.
Could be another one as well, like HC related topics where a DC could kill your character and hence reducing the chance for that.
We don’t actively know.
Which nonetheless means that currently since mechanical aspects are in the game which go actively counter to that we can’t recommend bypassing it as it’s the current mechanical state of the game, it points to a problem in both directions, either/or.
As long as not one of them is handled we don’t know the status, we have some some nice Schrödinger’s design here basically.
Well, and here I’ll disagree… slightly.
There’s modern coding-standard for different situations out there. For example network code has standards… and so has general software design.
A prime example would be our lovely mastery-class security checkbox which by mistake didn’t default to ‘no’ as a choice for controller support. This is one of those design-standards established by grand-scale experience over time.
And the same things exist in video games, especially in video game markets and in relation to code handled on server-side versus client-side which was the exploit happening.
Those can only and solely happen when those design-standards aren’t followed. And… there’s tons upon tons upon tons of them… and they should all be followed when applicable. It’s a complex topic.
But if they’re not followed it deviates form the standards which have been established - commonly - for a viable reason and hence should be followed as the people before already screwed it up and you don’t need to repeat it.
So if it’s not done… well… it’s understandable why people complain. After all the company didn’t follow quality standards which should be expected.
And this I agree to as well, 100%
But individuals can be assholes, and assholes can’t see hence they act quite short-sighted 
Hey, take it easy bro… No need to offend the whole community because of the pricks that did that. Even if you want to mock on this particular person, you could use something other than xenophobia.
We do, people complained about them constantly firing off if you needed to go AFK or look at your skills/passives/etc so the devs changed it.
This isn’t a case of Last Thursdayism.
In that case it’s solely a shoddy implementation.
Doesn’t change the point presented.
No, it’s just not a perfect implementation that takes into account every single possible or potential outcome. 'Cause life is flawed, if you hadn’t noticed.
Yeah, with that notion nothing gets ever well done since ‘as long as it works’ would suffice by design.
So let’s re-iterate this thing:
A way to stop spires has been implemented because of UI interactions happening which would otherwise not be able to happen properly as… well… you get pummeled all the time.
Makes sense.
So the first implementation itself is fairly badly done, no way around to say it different then it is. It was probably a quick patchwork job - or I can’t explain it myself otherwise - with low priority as basic quality control didn’t happen.
Why would I say QC didn’t happen? Because if you want to make 100% sure that you don’t have interactions you take a 2-step approach. First you create the premise ‘don’t shoot after ‘x’ time of not using a skill’ and then follow up with a list of baseline interactions which do actually cause those to happen and make a workaround.
This hasn’t happened, so it was ‘good enough’.
If that would’ve been the case then either workarounds would’ve been implemented to not trigger it or the opening of UI would’ve been reworked to generally stop things happening, including you. That’s the open solutions there.
So then this went on, wasn’t a major thing before anyway, small nuisance, people don’t even know about this interaction commonly unless specifically looking out for it or by sheer luck stumbling over it. It’s nowhere explained, shown, highlighted after all.
Now the devs get the idea for this great new mechanic, Nemesis. Starting at this moment QC becomes high priority and not low for that. ‘How does it feel?’ ‘Is it balanced?’ ‘Does it cause issues clearly somewhere?’ and… ‘Testing it all in all relevant content’ which means does it interact oddly when in monoliths, does it have a chance to show up in Arena despite not supposed to be… including… do Spires interact badly with it.
Main monolith goal, core implementation, non-avoidable as you can’t see the task beforehand, it’s random.
So now that leaves us with only one more outcome: Shoddy QC from the devs.
We’ve established that ‘one character does all’ handling of builds is a design philosophy.
It was mentioned that ‘backtracking is not fun and generally bad’ at a talk about their overall design (I think it was with the implementation of monolith tasks showing the direction) which hence is another design-philosophy.
Since this implementation breaks automatically one of those 2 states it’s ‘bad design’ for it.
Either you need to throw the ‘one character does all’ premise under the bus… which isn’t bad to have or throw under the bus, it’s flavor after all, Grim Dawn showcases a great example of how to do the opposite.
Or you throw the backtracking one under the bus, hence freely including backtracking situations without caring for them, upside or not.
Both baaaaaad.
Which leaves only one last option to do: Change the situation to fully adhere to the design philosophies.
Which brings us back to both suggestions from you in the current state being not an argument. At best a workaround.
The devs hence have to either remove all the possible interactions as a form of spire trigger (which would be much work and very prone to failure) or by removing this situation outright with for example a instance-pause during interaction (Has other downsides but no chance of future failure).
One way or another, if you don’t wanna throw a design-philosophy under the bus it warrants change. If not then it’s a core-aspect of their design removed. Pick your poison.
This person claimed to represent the same community the dupe was exploited by. So it would make sense then if he has the ear of that community it could reach those particular people who did it quicker and more pointedly.
Couldn’t care less where they came from, but as I said in this instance, if our dude is a rep for the same community, why would we not suggest he tell them to knock the crap off?
I think players who feel this way should go play MMOs instead of ARPGs. Action by definition can’t mean only standing still facetanking enemies as a playstyle. Facetanking can be a thing in action games, but if that’s the playstyle people want they should try classic tab-to-target MMOs instead, that’s much more likely to appear in that genre rather than modern ARPGs.