Probably a million plot holes in this suggestion that I’ve not even thought about but what the heck…
Add a new affix called ‘True Health’
This is a percent figure and functions exactly the same a Increased Health (%) does right now, right down to applying to the exact same gear slots, literally everywhere, Idols the lot.
There are 2 key differences:
True Health scales to x2 that of the normal %Health, everywhere. So your 1x2 Lagonian Idol can now have 4% to 10% True Health for its prefix, and a typical affix slot t7 can hit double what the original one does now.
If your have any amount of Ward, True Health does not affect you in any way. Or put another way, the % increase on it is counted as 0%, or whatever is least complicated. Tooltip: “If you have any Ward, True Health has no effect.”
Now you just have to design a dozen new uniques round True Health, adjust a few lacklustre passive trees (cough… Shaman… cough) to accommodate it creatively etc etc, and thus a hundred builds are (re)born.
I await your ridicule with a certain amount of curiosity.
Maybe just let health affix come with endurance, since endurance is not helping ward builds. So %health would come with %endurance and +health would come with +endurance threshold?
Only issue is that it would make health even more important as suffix and that is already a pain, but atleast it would make health builds more viable.
I don’t think we need to buff HP builds, we just need to rein ward in once again. It was fine(-ish) pre-1.0.
Fix the broken interactions, take measures to have that happen again (like changing the formula so it decays much more aggressively at higher values, like it was suggested in another thread), maybe make some changes like armor not applying to it.
If you have a broken thing, you shouldn’t want to break another to compete, but rather fix the first one.
Why do you want to overbuff the working defence tool instead of regulating the overperforming one? Ward is shitshow to begin with and EHG had one season time to fix all the issues with Ward. Untill cycle 2 I don’t see any reason to buff HP because every half baked HP build should be able to run down 300C.
Because I do not agree that Ward is over-performing. Yes there are specific ways to break it that are stupidly OP and should be addressed, but Ward is otherwise fine. I mean contrary to popular belief, you can’t just slap on an Exsang, LSotL boots and experimental ward Gloves and suddenly double your EHP. You’ll get a tiny boost at best and lose lots of opportunity affixes you could have had on those slots instead, so net result is you gimped yourself. However many are just going to shout about it forever unless they see HP and Ward being equal so my suggestion is more to appease them.
I think we all know 300c is a meme. Almost any clown shoes build/gear can achieve it.
Well if you gimp yourself then everything is fine and Ward a non issue because it’s gimping you anyway. So this makes HP even better because you don’t gimp your build by your definition. Now I’m confused why you want HP to be better when Ward gimps your build.
Uhm let them shout? Sure right now Ward is problematic and EHG messed up. Happens to the best. Untill there is no rework or news about the system in the future I don’t even start to think about it because it’s most likely fixable by number tweaking because the systems in place aren’t soooo bad.
That was what Mike told before 1.0 was released. Sure they backpaddle a lot and act like this was never said and never was set in stone but I still hold them accountable to it because that was the goal set before the release. So it’s more the fault of EHG to comicly miss their aimed target numbers by miles. Sure we will most likely never see a patch that nerfs everything to those levels and EHG will never again make statemets in this direction again and will keep all opportunitys open if they luckiely hit a sweet spot for all builds rather then sticking to their plans they communicated.
With no balancing goal in place the only working as intended build could be a forgeguard purist build… we can’t tell because EHG isn’t open about it and only communicates vaguely. If they don’t say xyz is the goal we can’t tell if something is OP or not. We can only tell that build A performes x times better then build B but that’s a shitty place to start to think about balancing because we can’t even tell if build A is in the intended balancing range to begin with.
EHG should grow a pair and tell us what they aim for so we can start to talk about balancing as it is planned and intended by EHG.
I’d instead prefer to see ways to get higher endurance cap via passives or items and more endurance threshold. Only other defense layer that doesn’t work with ward i remember is “damage to mana before health” and i’d like to play with it very much, but i don’t have gear for it and it seems to be mage only. Description says it takes 1 mana for 5 hp damage, so works like 80% endurance. Maybe make this defense easier to get?
Also boosting endurance cap would probably be easier to manage than adding “True Health” prefix.
Maybe I was unclear. I didn’t mean ward gimps your build. I was getting at the fact that many players (and posters on here) seem to think that one of the “proofs” that ward is “broken” is because you can just slap on 3 LL items and now you are invincible, hence ward must be OP. This is of course, nonsense. My point was that if you do that, you gimp yourself (assuming you don’t have godly 3LP items).
Oh absolutely. I don’t care if they shout… but EHG often listen to the shouters. Example: ladder players seem to want it to be “law” that no build can push more than 100 (number varies from person to person) waves further than any other build, and if one does, then it MUST be nerfed at once. Imagine how bland future content will be if EHG listen to that.
Yeah, the most prevalent issue with that - and otherwise it would be viable - is that any affix affecting ward becomes a detriment because of it.
Imagine rolling ward generation on something and it gets locked in, even with 3 perfect affixes otherwise that item couldn’t be used anymore as a health build then as all other items you have become immediately non-functioning.
So while the base idea is a nice one it’s simply not viable.
Adjusting ward itself to have proper numbers is still the easiest and quickest way without introducing new issues.
it really isnt that bad tbh. it really depends on class, you dont need 3lp. 2lp will suffice, and hell dont even need lp shackles. I hit 10k ward on my necro with 2lp exsang and 1lp last steps.
swapping to life = no recovery that is good, less total EHP, and having to actually get even more gear to come even close.
people extremely over estimate endurance imo. there is people that are like “low investment ward is so much worse then endurance” but the math just does not add up in the slightest.
like obviously yes, slapping on 3 LL items with no LP is worse then exalted health gear, but I dunno about anyone else, I find it way easier to get 1lp LL gear then it is to end up with 4k+ health.
For reference a 4k health player with 10k armor and 60% endurance with default threshold(20% of max hp) has 11k one shot ehp vs non physical. a 10k ward player with 500 armor also has 11k vs 1shots. once you are talking 12, 15, 20k ward? literally not even a comparison.
Endurance sucks cock frankly. They would need to massively boost threshold for it to ever compete, even at a whopping 40% of health as threshold the math is
(0.6/1) + (0.4/0.4) = 1.6 or 60% more ehp. its really good bang for your buck, but does nothing to help compete with the raw monster numbers ward gets.
Frankly right now there is just too much ward retention, and LP is too easy to get on the LL gear.
When I started playing, there was no LP, and no frostbite shackles. and no experimental mods. All three of these things has done nothing but turbo buff LL. When I first started LL was sorta an off meta choice for classes like BD/Primalist who had strong LL passives, or summon builds who often times have harder time getting recovery as they dont directly leech and have low direct damage.(Regen is fucking ASS as well unless you get some double dip benefit ala shattered lance or julra cup) And they were comparable to health, because the LL items hurt your total health you could pull from.
Like why does titan heart, a life focused chest which rewards two handers with some DR/good health have such a high LP rating vs Exsang? heck they even made exsang easier to get LP on in 1.0. Add on merchants guild and CoF massively boosting item rates and its just a nightmare.
I really have no idea how they plan to fix it. I dont really think buffing hp/endurance is it.
The most logical choice to me, is to simply heavily nerf how easy it is to get LP on the LL items, shoving it back to being an int focused non leech build defensive profile. Also rework shackles to be a purely frostbite item and get rid of the meme of just getting 500% ward retention for free. Ward retention isnt the problem, its how much you get from fucking shackles.
I say this as someone who plays LL ward because I favor necros. But its just so stupid at this point that health is basically a non factor because of how STRONG LL is with just a tiny bit of effort.
What makes ward so potent is it is unlimited, so you’re not working against limit.
I think there needs to be something with Health Leach that does this.
*As long as you have zero ward, your health leech (probably only a portion of it not like the full mods you might have on your character for leech) after your health is at full is placed into a buffer of sorts (sort of like ward actually.) Call it Adrenaline Pump. I don’t.
So you have 3000 Health. Let’s say you have 13% health leech on hit. ZERO WARD!
Once your leech gets you to that full 3000, from that point, it goes into your Adrenaline Pump. But Adrenaline Pump has a decay just like ward. Depending on the actual numbers maybe it doesn’t sue your full health leech of 13%, say 20% of that, I don’t know the numbers so you’d have to balance it so it wasn’t over powered obviously.
This could also be done as a potential re-work/adjust to Endurance to make it more viable for Health people.
I think that with corruption being limitless, approaching anything as “overperforming” limits the creativity and diversity provided by the dev team. Ward is fine, regardless of whatever the established meta is. I think that OP is right to suggest buffs to HP overall to allow finetuned, heavily minmaxed, health focused builds achieve the corruption levels of ward based builds.
I feel like every new cycle, players should be presented with new ways to break the ceiling of the previous cycle’s highest performances.
The idea suggested where endurance comes with the respective health stats is genius. Even if it were only to apply to chests and helmets it would be be incredible QoL, and the easiest fix I’ve read in this thread.
A concept like ‘over-leech’ would do that. So when you leech life it obviously stops when you’re full. Now, over-leech wouldn’t, similar to Ward having no upper limit in theory albeit a diminishing fall-off the higher you go over your health %-wise.
So for example if you have 10% more life then you actually would’ve then it drops off over the next 5 seconds, 20% drops down to 10% in 4 seconds, 30% to 20 in 3… and so on. Obviously with different numbers, similar to ward-retention those need to be fine-tuned over time… and ward also isn’t there yet.
But this would mean that over-leech wouldn’t come into effect for ward builds since they usually go low-life with conversion, meaning it’s not viable for them… but instead solely for health.
No need for the ward being taken into effect at all, actually could cause some hybrid builds which make use of it but they’re generally weaker in both aspects anyway.
No, absolutely not. This is factually wrong.
The devs need to make content which lets people reach ‘further along’ then they do now… hence a balancing baseline is a mandatory step or this one fails either by builds already heavily outperforming new content (which means no time investment) or failing to ever be able to beat said new content (underperforming). There’s always a sweetspot and it’s a mandatory thing to get at least close to.
LE currently fails in major ways with that which makes future endeavors problematic.
I disagree. I think we just need to add a limit to ward.
Again, ward was mostly fine before 1.0 and health builds were fine as well. If ward is broken with 1.0, why should we go and break health as well, rather than fix ward in the first place?
I actually had most builds with health. The only ward issue I found was mostly with runemaster, because it was already a little unbalanced, which the new masteries exacerbated. Otherwise, I found that health builds were relatively balanced with LL/Ward.
Yes, and every single one of those characters would’ve been tankier with ward.
I currently don’t know of any character which can’t go ward (unless they specifically need some unique gloves) and be less viable then otherwise.
Ward has always been a issue to balance for EHG and they never managed to get it even remotely close to being similar… well… they had before implementing more options to generate it suddenly and throwing it all overboard.
I also had most builds with Health… but that doesn’t change that a properly built ward one is just superior by magnitudes since you sit at 10k+ ward with a character that’s not even built around ward generation. That’s so much EHP in comparison to health that it allows you to push far far further then you normally would be able to.
If you can do that, it is abusing a broken mechanic not Ward itself. But please link me a build that sits at 10k ward without building around Ward.
NOTE: Healing Hands builds do not count, we all know how broken those are. I can hit 30k ward with HH with the only investment in Ward being a single skill point in HH. That’s busted.
