5 is perfectly fine, you can make a good build with that and you can manage it. You control exactly what you activate and when, what it triggers, all the interactions, etc. 10 is far too much, unless they are unspc’ed or very poor skills. That’s not what I want to play. I like LE like it is now, sincerely.
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Could be great experiment.
For one short patch implement special button just for movement ability. See if players that are against it really wouldnt use it if it was there (because they want the game to be slower or whatever other reasons).
Also would be cool if people really complained that they can use one more class ability (imo all of them way cooler and more impactful than just blinking/jumping every 10 seconds.
While ofc at the same time they could retain ability to move around swiftly on cd.
Because i am not advocating for just additional skill slot.
But what skill would they choose for their build? Now that sounds like important decision.
Deciding that you just want to walk - not important decision at all.
Not a choice really.
Hence most player do include movement skill.
Couldnt agree more .
Yet another reason to just make movement skills default. You could still have cool variations and different options. Why not some special mini tree for just dedicated movement skill?
It’s like can you imagine Lost Ark without movement skill?
Situation is very similar in LE with limited ability slots.
Never met anybody that would say ‘‘Ewwww my character can move a bit faster on cooldown. How gross. I shall never do it.’’
Or ‘‘Hey i wish i could TAKE AWAY one of my awesome class abilities so my character can sprint to the edge of the screen 10 meters away.’’ BEWARE THE FURY OF MY STRONG CALVES
none of you guys make any sense, let us use 10 anyone who wants 5 can do that. My necro cannot use its movement skill it just feels so wrong. Adding hotkeys changes nothing except gives me some QOL it willl not affect balance. Wanna use 5 use 5 , i should be able to use 6 -10 if i want too i gotta change them manually it sucks its a pain and feels terrible. Honestly it is simply a bad decision and makes zero sense, people defend it because they like the game diablo 1 had more hotkeys for crying out loud, you could hotkey skill books.
we will always be limited to cookie cutter builds that cannot use movement skills and forced to use 5 of the skills when there are so freaking many to use. Makes zero sense at all i played ARPG since APRG ever existed
excellent idea!
We hear that some people want to have more skills on their bar. We do not agree that more skills are strictly better or simple a QOL change. This is a very significant game design decision with large implications on gameplay. Even if we wanted to change it, we do not have the time between now and launch to make this change without compromising other features or extending the launch target. These costs are too high to entertain this as a viable option.
I will encourage everyone to continue the discussion with the fact that we will not be changing this pre-1.0 in mind. I say pre-1.0 because after launch, we can afford to set people on longer term tasks like this. It might not seem like it but this would require many people to spend a very long time on. Post launch it is extremely unlikely but not impossible.
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that sucks the big one, thanks for clarifying 
my necro will continue life as a turtle . Sounds like we will be lucky to ever even get 1 extra button for the damn movement skills, POE 2 will crush this game as it has buttons
Its not a technical limitation and bringing up other simialr games that have more action bar slots does also not make a lot of sense.
Because when a game is balanced around having a certain nubmer of skills available, changing that is a HUGE thing.
While I respect your opinion on this and it seems that here are a lot of people in this discussion that will never come to agree.
Your statement is objectively wrong. This is not onyl QoL and will very much affect balance, meta and build diversity.
While you have a very strong opinion about this one specific part about LE.
There are a lot of people with exactly the oposite stance.
Where the deliberate chocie of onyl having very few buttons is what makes them feel like LE is superior to PoE in that regards
What if I told you that games used to have only two buttons, and lots of people were still able to enjoy them anyway?
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Seems to me that this whole argument is a motte and bailey, and everybody who claims they don’t like being limited (the motte) really just doesn’t like having to give something up so they can use a movement skill to blast through content (the bailey).
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I also have a necro without a movement skill on my skillbar and don’t think she is ‘a turtle’ . A bit slower than my other character but nothing to grieve about. LE is not like PoE where you really have to zoom-zoom the map to feel comfortable. With that said I’m not against 6th (not 10 slots!!) only 6th slot solely for a movement skill (with a ‘movement’ tag). But with a drawback - the skill there must be unspecialized. That slot could even be granted via a unique item (or 'enchantment ’ in a future dungeon) for those of players who really want that 6th movement slot.
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Never heard of that phrase before… Thanks for the quick lesson…
I must admit that I agree with you here… This does seem to be exactly what is happening.
I find the limitations that LE imposes half the fun and the challenge around being forced to be selective on skill choice & what skills you can have on your toolbar (i.e. buttons) are part of the creative process when building a char… Making a build and realising that you have to sacrifice one skill for another skill is part of what I like…
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This does seem about right. I’ve been trying to find a way to discuss this, but I think you’ve got it. The only arguments I’ve seen are “Five skills are too few because we should have ten” and “I’m too restricted to use a movement ability”. The first one doesn’t have any merit because we need a why 10 is clearly better than 5, which hasn’t been provided. Since a justification for needing 10 skills as opposed to five hasn’t been provided, there’s really nothing to discuss here. The best we have so far is “D2 has more slots, PoE has more slots, therefore LE should have more slots!” Which, without further justification as to why they should have more slots, is just the Is/Ought fallacy.
The movement skill thing has come up in the past, where it seems almost like a false choice, since most builds need a movement skill. That being said, not all builds need a movement skill, so I can see the reasoning behind leaving that up to player choice. I would also be fine if there was a defined slot just for movement skills.
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In that case I want less slots in the skill bar. One that is assignable to left mouse, another on the right mouse button, then two extra (keyboard) instead of the current five and finally, one slot exclusive to a movement skill.
Cool. Unfortunately, this has a similar level of development investment required and has the same response as the initial request.
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Thinking about the need if movement skills:
They feel mandatory. And there are some builds where a movement skill and everything you can do with it in the skilltree seems not to fit your build very well. In this case the movement skill is just a movement skill and using it will somehow weaken your build. Then you have to make the decision if you want to sacrifice damage for movement or vice versa. It feels a bit unfair to have to make that decision when there are other builds that can make very good use of the movement skill because its skilltree interacts with you build. The Transplant example is a good one. It has some minion support but this will always be less effective than having a summoning skill in that place. For me personally it’s always a sacrifice and I’m only using it if I really feel I need the movement for survivability.
My guess is that with time we will get more and more different movement skills so we have more choices. The Spellblade got Surge that opens up the build variety for that class. Maybe we get a cool movement skill for Necros that’s really a big support for minions instead of that 40% increased damage and some crappy bone minions you can summon 
.
And with that it wouldn’t feel very restrictive
There’s no need for more skills. Some people think that more = better, but this isn’t automatically true.
If other games “crush” LE then not because of the 5 skills limit.
So, you want 5 skill slots but the current 5 skill slots that the game provides is insufficient because… it provides too much flexibility?
For argument’s sake, if they did as you suggest, there’d be some (IMO, probably somewhat more) who’d want the exclusive slot to be able to be used for any skill.
Funny thing is that we actually tested out exactly that at one point.
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Well, I didn’t consider the movement slot an actual skill slot because it’s limited in its functionality. More like a glorified utility hotkey similar to the potion or time shift hotkey. But now that I think about it, two skills on mouse buttons plus one free on keyboard and the movement hotkey would be even better. 
That’s the whole point of my post, providing some opposition to the initial suggestion of having more slots. I wasn’t 100% serious and the idea behind it wasn’t fully developed. When Mike wrote we should discuss some more I knew I had to. 
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I’ve played these games in excess of 40 years now and have never known a single ARPG/CRPG/etc. to give unlimited number of skills. There has to be a limit somewhere and I think 5 is a good balance here.
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More than 40 years?
I guess that’s true, Pacman didn’t have unlimited skills IIRC. 
(Just teasing, I am in the “5-skills-is-great-because-it-forces-you-to-make-decisions-on-your-build” camp. And I vote against special movement skill button, some builds are good without and it is an interesting challenge to work around.)
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