I saw this earlier today, I believe on Reddit?
About the topic in the thread, Corruption and power levels, if I had to estimate what Corruption level T4 Julra is equivalent to, I would say probably somewhere 300-400.
When my Lich was barely capable of 400’s, I was still able to knock out Julra without too much resistance. I had more or less the same experience on Void Knight.
I don’t feel that Julra is any harder for melee. Shade of Orobyss comes to mind for boss encounters that are tilted against melee, but Julra unless I drop a puddle right next to her (my own fault), I don’t feel disadvantaged for being melee.
Just my two cents.
And I think this game is already due for a corruption squish. The devs were aiming for 300 as an endgame benchmark but the number is realistically double that. Totally fair builds are pushing beyond 1000. Overpowered builds push beyond 2000.
This also makes the corruption climb very slow because the corruption gains for completing a timeline is tuned based around that underestimation. Corruption should basically progress twice as fast as we’re seeing now.
My opinion, in summary:
-600+ is probably a truer benchmark of a “good” build.
-2000+ is a benchmark for “overpowered” builds.
-Most builds should fall within that range of 600 to 2000. Outliers should be reigned in.
-Corruption progress is 1/2 the rate it should have been.
-T4 Julra is equivalent to about 300 to 400, once you learn how to handle her mechanics.
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the end-game currently is very broken. there are a lot of’ OP monsters builds, ya, like OP player builds… buuuut, devs are fixing OP player builds(OK with that) without even speaking about OP/broken monster hits…
I always remember “EHG is listening to community”, I think they are listening to “fan boys” community, that guys that always write “thank you for the patch, thank you”…
with this attitude from devs the game will just die, not that anybody cares anyway, e.g. they took the money already.
a major difference is that Julra is more of a grind to get to, only to fail again and again.
Shade you can just repeat without having to grind more echos to fight again.
so, first you have the problem that is located between the screen and chair, then you have the problem of going through 2 zones each time you fight which contributes to peoples frustration with Julra.
I’m definitely not saying Julra is easier or less frustrating to die to.
Only that, in terms of being anti-melee or having mechanics that favor ranged over melee, Julra is less of an offender than Shade of Orobyss.
But also to your point, I would argue that dying to Shade of Orobyss once wastes way more time than dying to Julra once. Losing two Gazes is a critical strike to the balls.
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Losing to Shade is a steeper penalty, unless we’re just focused on players having an optimal way to repeat a boss fight to learn mechanics. i.e. like other games where the player is just booted outside of a boss room to immediately repeat the encounter if they choose as opposed to being booted from the entire dungeon run.
What are the OP/broken monster mechanics you have in mind? Or are you speaking on the numbers and not the mechanics themselves?
all DoT damage from mobs is broken, e g. Tundra Stalker, Ulatri Scavengers breath attacks. Shots from Ember Mages.
Not able to learn the fight properly is the most annoying thing here. Appear again after wipe in her room, with no loot attached to try it, may be good.
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That’s my largest issue with LE’s dungeon boss encounter design, particularly for new players to the game or genre. The bosses have the potential to swiftly kill players before the players can learn anything about how the bosses work. And after that death, rather getting a chance to immediately try again and learn something the player is forced to go slog through the part they did successfully navigate just to get to the part that killed them to finally try again. This time delay is compounded when it’s newer players who don’t have a bank tab full of keys. Read many posts across the different social platforms of players taking that first key to the dungeon, getting to the boss, getting one-shotted, and then they can’t even try again. I don’t know why this design choice was made. It doesn’t add anything worthwhile to the player experience. It feels like something put in to pad the endgame a bit since the dungeon count is so small.
I’ve seen a few remarks in the past from others advising new players to just learn the fights on YouTube first. If a player must learn how to play a game enocunter from a source outside the game itself, then the encounter design is heavily flawed. There are a lot of things games don’t directly expose to the player, but learning mechanics absolutely should not be one of them. Ever.
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To be fair, you’re supposed to learn the mechanics in the lower tiers. It’s just that most players simply ignore those mechanics because they don’t die to them at that point. So they’re surprised when they start to get one-shot.
But if you learned the mechanic in T2/T3 you wouldn’t be surprised by them by the point you reach T4. So you don’t actually need to watch a video. You just need to pay attention to the fights before that instead of just facetanking while watching a video on another screen.
That being said, the one thing I agree is that you should have a few more attempts at the boss without having to go through the whole dungeon once again. Maybe we should get a new type of dungeon key that just lets you go directly to the boss?
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I’m talking about the lower tiers in my last comment. I’ve seen a decent number of complaints from people getting obliterated in a hit or two on their very first run, hence the comment about players taking their first dungeon key. Some of this is definitely players falling into the trap of focusing on “bigger numbers better” and just worrying about offense with no regard for defensive mechanics. But a lot of this is also the hoops a new player has to go through when they fail. Before switching to offline as my primary way to play, I’ve run T1/T2 Julra with friends and we generally don’t spoil things for each other. As an anecdotal example all of them, for whatever reason, saw the big clock and didn’t register it as a problem to change time periods to avoid. Zap. There goes the remaining life. For the one who survived, he had no idea what actually hit him. So the second time it happened. Boom. Dead. Do the whole dungeon again.
If the devs are absolutely married to this key idea, I’d like a boss key mechanic. Though preferably, at least on lower tiers to let people learn in game, maybe something akin to the monolith penality. You lose the rewards, but you can keep fighting the boss to learn once you get there.
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One thing I’d like to see in the game is replacing dummies by your choice of enemies. Something like D3 had in challenge dungeons.
Basically you’d go to the training grounds and you’d select a pack of and instead of wailing on dummies, you’d wail on real enemies.
And you would also be able to choose a boss so you could train that fight.
If that were available, they could even keep the current single key/single try system, since players could replay that fight over and over until they feel they’re prepared.
It would also double as a sort of DPS meter. Even though you wouldn’t be able to get a “You did X damage” number at the end, you could make changes to your build and see how it changes the boss fight, or whichever enemy you choose.
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That would pretty much solve this. A “danger room” of sorts for X-Men fans/readers.
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I don’t know why you two want to add more layers of insanity and complexity upon something that is already not satisfying.
- Kill the keys. The loot from these bosses is situational, not better. So requiring a key drop for a dungeon entrance is … why? It also makes it difficult for dungeons to be a true alternate to the campaign for alts to level in.
- Add a sub-boss to each map. Increase the difficulty of each map (do it by not adding one-hit bullshit). Suggest making each map have an increased chance to drop specific item types (to aid in hunting for specific implicits).
- Add a respawn point at the beginning of each map and the boss. Remember that this is a game, not a job, adding tedium to the player experience just so that some masochists can feel like they (and other players) have ‘earned’ it is anti-fun.
- Add a variety of interesting random events in each map that users are happy to interact with (i.e. don’t add annoying events just to slow the player down).
- Make the difficulty progression be, map 1 < map 2 < boss, instead of, map 1 = map 2 <<< boss
Mono/echos scratch the random object itch. Dungeons should be scratching the well crafted experience itch. Sometimes you just want to grind (mono’s). Sometimes you want an interesting challenge. … I’m not actually sure I agree with this paragraph, I’d like mono’s and dungeons to be more entertaining. But I kind of agree with it.
I won’t speak for @DJSamhein, but you’re free to reread my comments at your leisure. I haven’t asked for an added anything … at all. Nothing I’ve posted is about adding another system, though I am curious what gave you that idea.
I’ve either suggested removing an existing barrier (keys, full dungeon restart requirement), or refining existing systems (practice dummies, loot penalty for dungeon/monolith failure) if the developers are married to their inclusion.
Regarding your suggestions:
Removing keys - I agree and have said or implied that they don’t add to the player experience.
Adding a sub-boss - Who’s adding another layer of complexity?
Adding a respawn point at the boss - I agree, I said exactly this.
Adding random events to each map - Who’s adding another layer of complexity?
Difficulty progression - On lower tiers it’s basically exactly what you suggest (after the mechanics are known). It’s not until the latter tiers where the boss has a major power increase over the preceding floor(s)
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As far as I’m concerned, my suggestion wasn’t actually specific to this issue. It’s something I suggested before regarding mastery respecs/instant loadouts, as an alternative way to deal with that. I just refined it a bit more to deal with this issue as well.
Regardless of changes that might happen to dungeons, I still think a training ground like that (and with the option to freely respec at will, including different skill, masteries and even classes) would be beneficial for the game. With the added bonus that it would be something no other ARPG has, so EHG would be inovating again.
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This sentence was a bad, confrontational sentence for no good reason;
What I should have typed;
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I have learned to beat level 4 Julra with less defense than yours. (1.4k life, 2.2 k ward, 22% armor, full res). Just duck and dodge all the bad stuff. I don’t like it and I die about 50% of attempts.
But there is no point in increasing my defenses by 50% even doubling them, I would still die to one shot ground effects, I would need 5x the defenses to make any meaningful diffrence.
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I can’t say anything about the interest they might have in this, but regarding the banwidth they can simply implement all of it in the client (which makes sense, since it should also be available in the offline client). The suggestion I had made previously was to have this option available even before you created a character. Basically, this would be sort of a game mode you can select at the very start.
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