In ARPGs, there is always a steep diminishing return in character progression. The longer you play, the slower your character progresses. Eventually your character is in the 99th percentile of maximum strength and you’re just playing for that nearly-impossible chance to find perfect items so you can make miniscule progress. Most people don’t find that fun and quit playing at that point.
Seasons are intended to bring those players back to the game by wiping away that stale character and making them start fresh. Certainly there’s nothing stopping players from doing that to themselves in Standard, but it’s more fun when there are incentives and new content to sweeten the pot and the whole community is doing it with you.
My main complaint with other ARPGs though is that I do want there to be a little bit of cross-season progression. Particularly things that can speed up or skip the low level gameplay. Carrying crafting reagents forward might be nice.
It’s a good idea, so long as the NPC has something you have to click AND a confirm option (3 clicks, 1 to select, 1 to choose, 1 to confirm). I can’t tell you how many times I have clicked on beta NPCs in games and caused untold havoc for my poor characters. I’ve even clicked on an NPC by mistake and not realized it, then clicked to move away and that just happens to be where the confirm box is.
A nice bonus would be an option to turn it off as well, but again - that is probably not realistic and honestly there are probably better things to work on (though it would be nice to at least evaluate the feasibility to see if it would take much effort).
Also, for shared stash between standard and standard with league mechanics, most of the time items are not a problem because they are either just gear or would be non-functional outside of league/standard league. The main thing on the dev side would be to restrict the special, functional items to only functioning in the league/standard league. Gear between standard/standard league shouldn’t be a big problem even if it brings a few new gear pieces to regular standard (i.e. make gear ubiquitous and items esoteric).
I would argue there are two problems with your example
You played one game religously over a short period of time. You’ll complete every games content before they can release anything at that speed. And… that’s OK! For a free game getting 1.4k hours is exceptional. You will never get a better deal for your money.
I think you’re equating content to, well… content. My argument assumes that a season generally has a very small gimmick in it, while yours assumes a season has a massive change.
This is why, and this might be insanely unpopular, but this is why I really do believe in the “games as a service” if they are done right. For a game I love I absolutely want content on a regular, continuous and quick basis! Sadly we have only seen aggressive monetization to this date.
I see what you mean. I’m coming from Poe where leagues are massive. There were mechanics that were so fun and full of things do I played for the whole three months then still started the next league.
If dungeons deliver on the alt leveling process, would it make reconsider your stances on leagues? I would be willing to try a perm league but I’m not convinced it would lead to long term growth nor be the most fun i would have.
Well, personally I very much like Seasons. And yes, it does give you that sense of keeping the game “fresh”.
It certainly does something to the game. That is for sure.
If it weren´t for the Seasons thingy, MOST players would play their games a couple of times, and then quite simply be more or less done with it. SOME titles will keep Players playing a bit more since it offers very good and fancy MultiPlayer or CooP player options.
Seasons is also a very nice way to introduce new Mechanics to the game and Tasks and certainly new Modes and introducing new Enemies even.
But when that is said, it is also important to keep the flow of IDEAS fresh. With that I mean - Do not make Seasons just for the sake of Seasons. Show that you have actually come forward with fresh ideas to make different enough Seasons, which is actually fun, and don´t make Seasons that looks too much like the previous one(s), because that doesn´t make Seasons fun and intersting enough.
And yes, unfortunately for some of the ARPGs out there, and I also point my finger to you Path of Exile. PoE is now today one very nce ARPG and have been so for a very long time, but also at the same time PoE is and have been going in the trap of lacking of fresh ideas, because what it is now and have been for far too long is a game that is having Seasons that looks way too much like the previous ones. Both in Game-like Mode, Mechanics and other things.
But when that is said, I also do like the fact that Seasons brings Challenges. Because it gives you that pleasure of getting some truly Unique Cosmetic and other useable in-game Items, which is only attainable through these Challenges during the specific Season.
What I also find to a certain degree both fancy and not, is this Season Specific Supporter Pack(s). They are totally optional to buy and all, some of them are Supercool, but in my book they are WAY and overly unnecessarily and in fact greedily overpriced.
I think the mistake PoE made is adding too many of the League mechanics to the base game. In fact, I think that should either never happen, or happen really rarely with some mechanic that the devs actually want in the main game anyway, so they just “Season” it into the game.
Why?
Re-Use. If you do a Season, then remove it, you now can re-deploy that Season a year later. Players who joined after it ended now get to experience it for the 1st time, and veteran players who liked it the 1st time can do it again. There is a saying “Absence makes the heart grow fonder.”
Removes bloat. Too many things to do at end-game just waters everything down, and players will ultimately do only those things which are “most efficient” to powering up their build, and ignore the rest anyway.
No Separate Game. Seasons can be added & removed from the “Main” game. Players can try out the Season with their old characters, or roll a new one. Each newly rolled character after the Season starts has a “flag” on it indicating its a “Season” character (and which Season) and that character is eligible for the ladder, special rewards, etc. related to the Season whereas existing characters are not. There can be a separate SSF ladder (if there isn’t already, I don’t follow the ladder thing right now) for each Season which would totally mimic the separate “server”/“game” effect.
Hmm, tough question. Much appreciate you gathering my opinion.
My first instinct would be to want to play it on my pre-established character as I find games enjoyable when I am being fairly challenged. This means that the new characters I make are few and far between - I prefer to do research on what class / build looks engaging and farm / trade specifically for that character. I realize creating a game with this ‘Scenario’ is an incredibly difficult job for developers as it entails having an appropriate feeling of character power, enemy power, scaling power… and none of this is including Multiplayer or what others want.
A good example is probably D2:R for me. So, for D2:R, once I beat Hell Baal and Ubers in Tristram I deflated a bit because… what else was there? I got my money’s worth, sure, but while my friend continued to play I dropped it. I just didn’t see the need / fun of running Hell Baal or Hell Countess over and over for… getting loot to complete things we already did.
I don’t mean for this to be a cop-out, but it depends on the features added lol. A few things that would be important would be,
Will my already-made character be able to do this eventually?
Does it add new challenges that impact my character build significantly?
Do I have friends who want to do it?
Is there a new story / reason for me to be interested?
This is one reason I really love LE’s current endgame. I think it was a stroke of genius to do “what-if” scenario’s at the end of time. Sure, I might only be getting a single line of unique dialogue… but eh, it’s cool to me to imagine “What-If” scenario’s while grinding my character and pushing toward something.
I never participate in “seasons” or “ladders” or anything like that but it never has crossed my mind to do or say anything that would deprive people who enjoy them.
Not sure I understand the psychology behind this post.
Looking at a certain other ARPG, I think it’s safe to say that seasonal content works… Keeps the game fresh ever so often and gives them a lot of room for creativity.
The devs have also said multiple times that they’re going to be quite the same as PoE’s Leagues, only they would call them Cycles in LE. Don’t see the point of this thread when it’s going to be a thing regardless. And to be honest, it’s the first time I’ve seen somebody try and argue against it, for sure not a popular opinion.
I’m sure they’ll add their own little twist to it but I’m not expecting them to do something wildly different from a formula that works.
I’m a “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it” kind of guy. I think the success in making a great game is to take every well received thing and ignore the bad from other games and just add your own spin on it, doesn’t have to be wildly different.
Don’t ask me for a source on this but they did say they wanted to maybe introduce new timelines (acts?) and keep those going forward. The content going alongside those timelines would be something like a new class or masteries. I’m guessing classes that are based on the overall theme of the Season and such. I’m content with all of this if this is their way of keeping the game fresh.
I’m more adventurous and hope they try something new… but I suppose that comes from 3 decades of playing games and being bored by the same thing with a different coat of paint…
nice thing is that trying something new is part of the purpose of the whole seasons concept…
Then I assume they will need to fix it, because PoE Leagues are broke. Only elite streamers play in them now, and people are turned off by bad Leagues entirely.
That’s why I think EHG should take time to try something slightly different. (my ideas are previously posted, won’t repeat)
Last few leagues are received poorly by a number of things (balance) except the League content itself. Scourge being the exception here because they marketed it as “corrupt your items to maybe something good” which 99% turned out to be complete garbage and is only used for maps.
So no, not much to fix there other then to not drastically change the game and making it more grindy. I have more trust in EHG on this since LE is is much easier to balance thanks to the way it’s build up compared to PoE’s overload of intertwining systems.
