Why? They descided to make a game and publish an unfinished product in a bad state intentionaly. I compare it to every other game and if they can’t take the heat they should get out of the kitchen. EHG made their own bed and now they have to lay in it.
A lot of people told them “Give it another year it’s not in a good state.” and they released just to need a year to fix fundamentals and the game is still in a bad shape. So even optimists with experience like me were wrong when they told EHG they need another year because it looks like 2-3 years would’ve been more realistic.
I was referring to giving them time to add the content and the fact the other game mentioned has over 6 years of creating and launching new content each season. Don’t come at me for something I specifically and respectfully directed at someone else. D***.
But honestly, do whatever the f*** you want bro, compare away but here’s the thing - no ones making you play this game and no ones making you sit on these forums working yourself up into a fizzled little pile of sweat and rage so feel free to just go away and play something else. You won’t be missed, I promise you that. You’re not an optimist.
“give it time” - hopefully, optimistic, having a growth mindset, realistic patience.
“they made their bed now they have to lay in it” - this is resigned / fatalistic.
Basically you should move on with the other dozen or so negative poster boys on these forums who just hate on the game one dig at a time.
YEP 100% - I wasn’t happy, even after being a donator of much more than measly $34, just walked away for a bit, it seems MUCH improved. Take your hate and LEAVE
Again… so what? If you want to make a good game today you should make it in a way it lives up to the competition. D4 is in the same boat, heck even PoE2’s content amount is trash compered to PoE 1 and so on and so forth. Now chill out if you react like this when someone has a different oppinion then you you look like a fool with agression problems ^^.
i think its important that they know what they want AND what the players want and find the intersection. i think the players have told them what they want. and did actually did fulfill their part and gave player a huge lot of what they wanted.
players wanted more.
but players did not give ehg enough. ehg overcommitted to the players and ended up selling their game.
I want to clarified that the phase is mean for a cheeky joke on bangles classic song “if she knew what she wants”. Not my actual take.
As for your point of players not giving EHG enough time to cook. The issue, is EHG is (analogy) not the only sushi restaurant in town……and the other sushi restaurants make better sushi and more varieties….
EHG are just not cut out as a live service arpg game in 2026….
LE is not a bad game by any means, it’s one of the better arpg….the issue is live service games player tend to stick to one main game of a genre,
This is why so many good pvp games not kicking off, not becuase they are bad, it they cannot pull players from the big boys like cods, overwatch , Fortnite, voralant….
The thing is, if everyone who has any criticism about the game were to quit playing and leave, there would be not enough players left and Last Epoch would die. So yeah, they would be missed a lot.
That being said…
But weren’t you the one who said…
…So are you sure it’s other people who are the “little pile of sweat and rage”?
You are basically telling people that no one is making them play Last Epoch, and if they don’t like it, they should leave. Well, if you don’t like reading people’s post on this forum, by the same logic shouldn’t you say that no one is forcing you to read this forum, and so if you don’t like it you should leave?
tldr that can summarize a whole lot of discussion is this statement.
and i would still contend that d-likes can be a live service. just that for a new studio to pull it off, they need a huge amount of financial backing. that’s something ehg lacked.
No, I don’t think that’s the only way. In fact, EHG was on the right way before launch. The game was still compared to PoE but there was always the leniency of them being a smaller indie studio and that LE would slowly grow to someday be on the same level.
It was the huge launch hype and team growth that followed that basically placed them at the same level while removing the small indie status they had.
If they had retained that status, players would be much more lenient to the game and allow it more time to grow.
thats what a fan/supporter would say. but for everyone else, we’ll be brutal. LE gets inevitably compared with POE after a few months of “oh its a new indie” status have worn off.
it doesnt matter if you’re an indie or still in EA. if you’re a hobbyist veg farmer at a farmers market people your produce would be compared to all other vendors regardless of your status.
torchlight infinite is a newer dlike. its p2w but its fully featured with solid season mechanics and constant new characters/heroes for players to try/buy. it released on 2023 and is at season 11 now. in comparison LE released 2024 and now is at season 4. the progress is slow and the content that tli can push out is more significant. TLI can remain competitive because it has strong financial backing to keep pushing huge seasonal content.
every seasonal content you see takes a huge amount of resources. theres a saying. it takes money to make money. to compare, TLI is like some player that has a friend who gave them epic loot and gave them free keys to run an epic boss. they could afford the encounter and had enough gear to actually kill the boss. LE had to fight and scratch their way to scrap together gear and finally afford the key to the boss but turned up undergeared. poe on the other hand came in when the epic boss didnt have an epic variant and was easier to deal with. poe struggled, but finally killed the boss. and after many runs, the boss was irreversibly upgraded to the epic version. everyone else that came after poe’s success has to deal with this reality.
Not to push off topic but your vege comment, generally at farmers markets the smaller growers have much better produce because they’re smaller and put more effort in (agreeing btw)
That’s not really true. TLI never got that much hatred (or even attention) from the ARPG community at large. And that is because they were never actually big enough to compete with PoE.
D4, on the other hand, did. And that is because they’re clearly direct competitors.
So if LE had had a modest launch, without all the hype, without having a higher peak than PoE had at that time, LE would have been way way less criticized than it was.
Because if they had had a modest launch of, let’s say, 20k people, then the only people paying attention to LE would have been the fans/supporters anyway. It wouldn’t be big enough to attract the attention of haters from other games.
And it would have had time to slowly grow into something more consistent. Much like TLI did (although TLI also had the fact of being P2W to be dismissed by most as well).
Much like PD2 did. They usually get around peaks of 15k players and yet they are still below everyone’s radars. They don’t attract the hatred bigger games do.
i would argue a large portion of dlike lovers actually never gave tli a chance for a few reasons
torch light purists dont consider it a TL title and may even resent a diff company for taking over
2… the art direction is hit or miss. i have friends who LIKE what TLI has to offer but was turned off because of the cartoony graphics.
p2w can be a huge issue that most d-like enjoyers would automatically reject on the get go + gacha system
“china bad” mentality, as the main company is china owned
“mobile bad” mentality. which i do see why people dislike that its also available on mobile and how mobile game “features” can make a game worse.
when you say tli didnt get a lot of hate, i would argue it actually did. it got so much hate that most people dont acknowledge tli as one of the top d-likes, which it actually is. to me the top d-likes currently are poe1/2, d234, gd, tq2, le, and tli. but for most tli wont make the list. one could compare tli against le and say tli has a worse player count than le, but the reality is most of tli’s playerbase are on mobile.
in fact, tli is so hated that maxroll actually terminated their partnership with XD because they didnt do enough to curb the p2w in the game.
LE imo doesnt get as much hate. i know this because for LE in particular, i would argue most people that “hate” LE are people who loved the game and wanted the game to be more.
instead LE gets something worst than hate. it gets apathy. most d-like enjoyers really just see LE as something on the side. a huge lot of people say d4 is bad is because they WANT to enjoy d4. they want d4 to be more like poe. but the reality is d4 isnt bad. its just not for people who prefer poe.
perhaps you dont consider tli on an equal playing field, but regardless, that makes tli’s success even greater. tli is still making money even tho most d-like enjoyers dont even give it a glance, while LE had to be sold off.
Why not include PD2 in there? They do get consistently 15k players per season.
And I do get your points about TLI, especially the P2W stuff. I dislike TLI for that same reason (and all the mobile style notifications going on all the time that trigger my OCD).
I guess my point was being a smaller game gets more leniency and time to do things. Games like Hero Siege or PD2 have managed to slowly grow by not growing too much too fast. People don’t compare HS or PD2 to PoE and say it’s crap. They take it for what it is.
i m aware of PD2 and i know its awesome, but as long as its just a mod, its not a competitor. no one holds PD2 up to any standard as people view it as a fan made project. no one is going to hold the devs accountable for anything as it ultimately is a fan made project.
if we get updates/new stuff in PD2, cool! if not? oh well. as for hero siege, its 2d, d-likes tend to be isometric so its not even on the radar for most d-like lovers.
i myself consider myself as a purist, if possible i would never install a mod, because the moment i do, i break the “sanctity” of the game. i might as well modify the drop rates, modify anything i want. i used to do that in TQ, using custom masteries. its fun and all but theres no sense of permanency. its meaningless to me. its like winning a grand tournament but between a small group of friends. a hollow victory just for shits and giggles. it definitely can be fun but its not “legit”.
hero siege does somewhat well all these years, one main reason i would theorize is because of it’s 2d nature. its significantly easier to code and create game content for 2d games. so yeah of course those games get a huge amount of leniency. HS and PD2 are not even on the same playing field with poe to compare.
Fan made projects aren’t held accountable.
Teams of 1-3 devs aren’t held accountable.
Teams of 5-10 devs aren’t held too accountable.
Teams of 10-20 devs aren’t held as accountable.
etc.
The bigger the team, the higher the accountability. You don’t expect as much from smaller teams and quickly dismiss issues with the game on account of their size.
And EHG grew way too fast for its output and became highly accountable too fast, so mistakes are less excusable as they would have been if they were still a small team.
If EHG was in its current state with a team of 10 devs a year from now, everyone would be saying that it’s fine. But the current state with a team of 100+ isn’t.
That was simply my point, nothing else. A game gets judged more harshly the bigger the team behind it.
lets take PD2 and see why people dont hold it accountable. how many people play the game? how many people spent a ton of money to play the game. and what promises did the dev make for the game?
as a fan based project, theres no real promises but more of "trust me bro"s. and as mentioned most people dont view PD2 even as a game because as long as its a mod, it will never go further than that. dota blew up after splintering into its own standalone genre.
the question then goes to why arent smaller teams held accountable? the answer lies in what was promised and what players gave. also you need to see what the devs expected.
pd2 the dev just wanted to make a cool mod for his fav game which stagnated and honestly got severely left behind when poe came out. and he did just that. most people dont care for PD2 because its a mod so expectations are almost zero.
LE on the get go had a plan to monetize via mtx, they also promised seasonal content. they put themselves out there with promises.
in fact i would say titan quest 2 is not being held too accountable. one key reason is they are upfront on telling players what to expect. they dont plan for seasonal content. so far no plans for mtx and they will steadily increase content over time. also they’re not competing with poe/d4 landscape as it doesnt have seasonal content.
whenever your game has seasonal content its likely competing with other games. GD is a solid dlike but doesnt have seasonal content. i m patiently waiting for their new expansion but i dont feel like i need to hold them accountable for anything.
LE is different. its too close to mammoths like poe and d4. which to be honest is a huge compliment to the devs. and despite the harsh criticism it gets when being compared to them. isnt this a good problem to have? people hold you accountable because they see greatness in your project, in your team.
i dont hold PD2 accountable for anything which is a grand show of complete apathy.
About as many as those that play TLI. A bit less than that in the last few months where TLI grew a bit more.
I did already say that PD2 has 15k player peaks.
Yes, that was my point as well. Pre-launch things were fine (even if the EHG team was already decently sized). Then the launch came, the team increased a lot and so did the promises (and the broken ones as well).
If they had stayed in the same pace as they had pre-launch for another year (although we now know that wasn’t feasible economically for them at that point) things would have continued to slowly grow into place and there would have been no massive hatred posts.
It’s all interconnected in what I meant by growing too fast. They got a bigger team, they made more promises, they became “equals” with the top contenders.
Again, if they had had a modest launch of 10k players and continued at their previous pace, this wouldn’t have been the case. Players wouldn’t be as demanding and certainly wouldn’t consider it equal to PoE or D4.
Or, like you said:
LE wouldn’t have been accountable either because most players would have been indifferent to it.
yeap, actually only a minimal amount of people hold LE accountable. and thats because they promised many things to attract kickstarter backers. people loved what they saw and gave ehg their money. also a lot of people really want LE to succeed
the rest just saw LE as a POE competitor thats in development
if you react like this when someone has a different oppinion then you you look like a fool with agression problems ^^.