Yes, I agree with that. Well, maybe it’s not bad decision, though I personally think they kind of lagging behind because of that, could be one of the first modern ARPG’s in terms of control scheme instead of trying to catch up later.
Ok i think i know who u are.
What you said here is the same thing and wording thats been said on steam by ExoticBomj
Which has been spammed over and over again. As well as the same 30 sec undecember game play video in any thread about wasd
I have a feeling ur the sqme person under a different name here.
You have a wrong feeling. But let’s stick to the topic.
LMAO that name (means “exotic hobo” in Russian)
Could have been just a coincidence that u worded it extremely similar.
Nothing wrong with wanting wasd.
But I completely disagree with this point though. It’s a solo game, and if someone for some reason enjoying playing it with using mouse for moving, I don’t see why they couldn’t keep doing that. And even if they are like super-competitive (I don’t understand being competitive in such games, but well), then it looks quite unlikely that they wouldn’t be willing to change control scheme if being competitive is so important for them. Well, some of people still wouldn’t be unhappy of course, maybe I just don’t understand competitive element in this genre. When I want be competitive, I play moba usually.
WASD gives you an advantage when evading enemy mechanics. If it’s available, either the enemy mechanics are rebalanced around WASD, in which case not using WASD is harder, or it stays the same, in which case using WASD is easier.
Either way, having WASD makes it so you have to use it because it’s clearly better.
If you had the option to simply click the bar for casting (like some games do), you would have the option to not use the keyboard at all. And yet, this would be an innefective way to play and would probably get you killed more often. Likewise, if the game had WASD, not using WASD would make you die more often than if you did. So it would become “mandatory”.
Actually maybe you’re right, maybe balance would change too much indeed and it would change everything after all.
I guess it might be not bad to be a game for old school arpg gamers, it will have some playerbase for a long time.
Maybe I am, but I don’t hold the truth, so it’s also possible that nothing much happens from it. D4 doesn’t seem to have an issue with it so far. Not that I’ve heard anyway. So these are just my impressions and the general “fears” of some players.
But these are all things the devs have to take into account. And only they can make that decision, in the end.
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I personally don’t imagine that the difference would be so dramatic, somehow players are manage to play with mouse-movement, they could play somehow anyway. Though I just watched a video with kind of comparison, you can feel the difference https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTAkv5Iy47s
But for very experienced clickers the difference might be not large. Well, like you said it’s up to devs anyway, both types of players have games to play anyway.
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Hi all. Thought I would hop on this thread before it closes and add my two cents.
I see there’s talk about reasons for and against implementing WASD movement control support for the game. I don’t think any points made so far, at least on this thread, are invalid. They make a lot of sense, but if I may echo a point made on reddit some months ago (by user Pluristan) that I resonated with:
I don’t know why y’all keep complicating WASD. Most people just want WASD so they don’t have to flick their mouse around mid combat. Nobody is asking for WASD to have unique animations associated with it, just the functionality to be able to move in one direction while the cursor stays where the enemy is.
WASD doesn’t mean attack while moving, it means being able to move in between attacks without having to flick your mouse back and forth.
I think this quote/sentiment makes some good points about WASD and why people want it (myself included*, for the most part). For instance, it could be viewed as an accessibility feature to reduce strain on the right hand wrist. So for example, you’re attacking a boss, use a ranged attack skill when suddently they activate an area-based time-delayed or telegraphed attack. To avoid getting hit and possibly KO’d in this scenario, the play would be to move out of the way. In the current control scheme setup, one would have to move their mouse to both move out of the way to a different spot on the map/screen and then again to retarget the boss. This involves extra mouse movement and clicks. But if players were given the choice to move with WASD, they could move out of the way with their left hand/keyboard, then move their mouse once to reacquire the target.
Sure, some might be advocating for it (either directly because of or inadvertently) to gain the potential mechanical advantage of it if implemented as simultanious attack and moving, but as a way of compromise not allowing both movement and attack with WASD could be a way forward. So in that previous example, players would need to stop moving before being allowed to attack the boss again.
*However, me personally, I would LOVE it if WASD could be implemented as a way to control just the camera and still have mouse being used for movement/attack/direction. I don’t know how much of the player base I speak for, but games that allow for this type of camera movement (e.g. Dota 2) feel exceptionally nice & comfortable to play. And in terms of fair and balanced gameplay giving players control of the camera doesn’t have to shake the tree – given the title I just referenced, there are players who do and those who do not play competitively with WASD for camera movement.
Granted, I’m used to playing in this manner where my left hand is controlling the “view” while my right hand controls character movement and attack (I play with a mouse with programmable buttons for active skills). And, well, it sort of feels odd to play a game with a top-down third-person view like this and not have my left hand doing something invloved with movement (camera in the case of moba games like dota or movement with first-person shooters); in full disclosure though, I still can’t get used to using my left hand to activate skill/buttons 123456 or QWERTY – my fingers instinctively make a claw shape for WASD hahaha.
The issue isn’t attacking and moving simultaneously. The issue is that with WASD you can move and attack much faster than with mouse. In the post above yours is a video comparing WASD vs mouse on Undecember and your DPS increases a lot with WASD, even if you interrupt attacks while moving.
So that means that if WASD is implemented it becomes the meta. It doesn’t matter if it’s an option or not because it is obviously superior. And the game needs to be rebalanced around it.
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Ahh yeah. That would be poor to essentially lock down player choice and force a meta on the player base. And I’m not fully into the idea of giving over movement controls to WASD either, I’m sort of in my own lane with wanting that for the camera. It’s probably a strange/unpopular opinion but to each their own.
As it stands currently though, the game is more than playable with a controller, so anyone reading this and looking for another option beyond the good ol’ mouse, plug in an xbox/ps contoller and off the races you go! Also, to play devil’s advocate, if folks be pushing WASD movement in terms of ergonomics and comfort, it’s hard to beat controllers as your wrists aren’t pressed flat against a desk/wrist rest but instead naturally curved inwards and it helps that buttons are conveniently placed close to your digits.
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Caring so much about the meta is pointless. Devs can easily balance things out.
Imagine channeling a skill and moving while doing it, at a slower speed of course…cool, dope and on my wishlist.
Ideas to balance WASD:
- movement slower while you attack.
- decrease resistances while you move and attack.
- increase damage while standing in place
It’s not about caring about meta. If devs implement WASD into the game, they’ll have to beef up globally, because WASD gives you more DPS. That’s not the issue. The issue is that there are people that don’t like WASD on ARPGs and will be forced to use it.
It’s something to consider when implementing things. Although it’s quite likely WASD will happen in the future (just not right now because apparently it isn’t that easy to implement, according to Mike) so players will either have to adjust or move on.
Indeed, WASD is not trivial to implement. This click to move method is a remnant of the old ways. Once you go WASD you don’t come back.
They should do it for the rule of cool. It will make the game more fun and will outweigh the meta disadvantage. The sooner they implement it the faster they will be ahead of the curve.
I am 100% confident they can pull it off…they could make it a different league even. Let us test it out and get some data for them to take a good decision
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aaand, by the way, move and attack is already a thing with a few builds…ahem…warpath
As I said, I think WASD will happen in the future for sure. It’s not really a matter of if but of when. At least, that’s what I gather from Mike’s streams.
The biggest disadvantage that WASD brings is that you aren’t able to have “lazy” builds anymore, where you play with just the mouse. Or for most anyway. Stuff like necro where your right click is a move skill and you don’t use any other skill should be ok to keep using the mouse.
But if you have an active damage skill that you need to use repeatedly, you need to use WASD, otherwise you’re losing on DPS. And this isn’t something everyone likes.
But as I said, this will be the reality at some point. D4 already has this, PoE2 will have it as well, so players just need to adapt. I don’t see anything wrong with having this option, even if I preferred not to have it. I’ll adapt and keep playing.
I for one would probably never use WASD in Last Epoch.
Nothing wrong with it, it just feels like a different kind of game, and I mostly enjoy LE for the simplicity of use and the nostalgy it brings.
I like WASD in some other games, not in diablo-likes.
But I don’t mind if they implement it as an option. If they have to make the game globally harder, so be it. I still wouldn’t use WASD, and the game badly needs to be made harder anyway. 
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I find it kinda funny.
There were plenty of games in the 90s using WASD: not implementing it in Diablo was a choice, not a technical issue. All the other ARPGs followed the mouse-only system.
Then Blizzard adds WASD in Diablo Immortal, and suddenly it is the new modern thing that all other ARPGs MUST have.
We can criticise Blizzard, but 30 years later, they are still the ones dictating the trends… 
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