My only issue is the top end limit. I just dont think exalted or LP should ever be on the table to trade. It makes the value of those items plummet, as well as lowering the value of rares, why would you ever trade for rares when you can get exalted?
Which comes problem two with this idea. But creating “levels” of trade based on how powerful of the dungeon you can beat, you run into an issue that is already seen with some t4 dungeons where people complain that it narrows the selection of builds viable for play. You would never use your trade token on materials or rares, thats a waste. instead you would simply play a build that can blast the t4 dungeon so you get the maximum value out of your key.
unlike the current dungeons where there is some benefit to the lower tiers, because of the door rewards being different(somedays its better to farm t3 then t4 because its got the reward you want) there is basically never any incentive for this dungeon to be run as anything other then t4.
I think the better idea is detaching it from the dungeon all together, and keeping the core ideas of “Trade token” → kill monsters to obtain, that has a random stock of items being sold that you pay increasing amounts to reroll. This makes it sorta like a gambler type system, where you only engage with it sometimes, and it requires you to have funds to do so. (Thought this might have the same problem as the gambler that ehg didnt like, which was people just afk rolling at an npc rather then killing monsters lol)
The dungeon design simply adds more problems and headaches balancewise then helping. Really all trade needs to exist is to not let people just buy the best items in the game.
Yeah, the “market” solution proposed could work great, but as Macknum said, it doesn’t address the problem of playing with friends.
Not being able to share loot while playing together is extremely lame.
If i ever had to choose, in this game, between sacrificing “economy” or sacrificing party play, i would sacrifice economy every single time.
SSF is a thing and they can drop party play at any time. EHG can even add an 100% magic find modificator to SSF to solve the “I pee my pants and start to cry about droprates!” issues some people have. But that’s more in the line of a compromise and most people sadly don’t go for these and tend to on extreme or the other.
Yeah, but that makes extremely easy for EHG to decide exactly how much trading they want in their game. If they want players to trade a lot keys will be plentiful, if they want players to trade little keys will be rare.
Yeah but I don’t want to spin the wheel on how many keys drop :D. I want a certain number because imagine someone dropped 10 keys because of luck and in the same time someone drops 0.
I make an exapmle here. In Hero Siege there drop items called “Angelic Keys” they are needed to craft specific modifiers on items so they are expensive. I play with a friend and he normaly drops 5 keys while I get 0-1 and I have like 4 times the playtime of him ^^. If I have to suffer this horros in different games I fear I go mad ^^.
Some kind of soft reset would be nice like one key every 4h of playtime? So if you don’t drop a key in 4h you at least get one? What is then again exploitable :D.
Yeah this was something nice but then again there is the same problem… it’s rng based and to people might experience a different outcome. One might say “What trader?” and the other might say “I show you watch my stream they spawn every time I kill a boss!” just to show the spectrum of the possible range that divides people on the topic.
I think the problem of playing with friends wont ever be solved. Because he does not really want to “play with friends” the gifting system does that. When you are actively playing together you can share loot freely.
He wants to give items to people who were offline. That is just an economy with extra steps. So at that point they might as well free trade.
This is where the dilemma happens, because EHG does not want players skipping progression, they dont want player A who put in 3 hours of playtime to have better gear then player B who put in 50, because player A has a friend who put in 200 and gave him the same or better loot as someone who put in 50.
There is a disconnect with what the players view as “party play” split farming as individual cells then trading amongst yourselves is not “party play” for many of us.
edit: And if im being honest, At this point im all for a completely open market aslong as LP and exalted are off the table.
Yeah, i don’t think it would be a problem for them to be deterministic, like after you finish x monos/arenas/dungeons/whatever while playing with a guild member and you get one key. They would still be able to balance how many keys you get by tweaking “x”.
Personally i don’t see any problems with free trade as long the dropratios and content are balanced around SSF.
Let each player decide how they want to play the game, that’s the surest way to fun. If a player wants to receive all his items from his friends, that’s up to him to decide. He can always say “thx but i refuse since i want to feel the character journey by myself”.
LE already has multiple “difficulties”, you will be able to play “trade softcore”, “trade hardcore”, “trade masochist softcore”, “trade masochist hardcore”, “ssf softcore”, “ssf hardcore”, “ssf masochist softcore” and “ssf masochist hardcore”, they can even add " Market simulatorcore" and i would be fine.
The only players that would be put off by “free trade ssf balanced” would be the “market” players that only play Arpgs to play the market, but personally i don’t care about those players. In Action Role Playing Game there is no “market simulator” in there lol.
That’s right but I don’t see a dilemma here because player A and his friend have 203h of combined playtime where player B has 50h. Call me crazy but to me this sounds fair.
An example on the topic… When I start a D3 season late for whatever reason I ask a friend to carry me to max level and help me with some season quest stuff untill I’m up and running. Never heared anyone is complaining.
As I said in antoher post: If we get at least D3 droprates then I swallow the pill and I’m okay a worse and more restrictive trade system then D3 whatever they wanna name it. This makes sure I get reasonable ammount of loot in a reasonable ammount of time.
Playing WITH friends has never been an issue because gifting works when everyone is there. It just stops working when someone isn’t there anymore and that’s the issue. I don’t think about RMT or botting or whatever because the issue already exist trough gifting. I just think about giving my friend a build enabeling unique he needs that I have at hand and that’s it.
Then again the above: If we get reasonable droprates aka D3 droprates all of this will be a non issue. Farming 150h+ for an Exsang or a decently trolled blessing or for one smite procc relic will be a totaoly different thing.
That’s why I said I want numbers and examples where they want the droprates to be at because right now noone can tell wehere we go and where we are.
Yep balance the loot so SSF isn’t a way to torture yourself and let people who want to trade trade. Even people who don’t want to trade aren’t hurt by this in any way.
Will there be RMT spamms and stuff? Yes but they’ll be there if LE ever manages to have a decent enough player base.
This is the biggest problem, because EHG knows, and we all know, that its just not the case for these players. PoE is too big of a giant in the space, and deviating from it means your game is dead in the water to these people. Which I think EHG is just biting the bullet and letting them leave now instead of later.
Im pretty confident we will get more then gifting, but its never gonna be an economy simulator. And so all those people would have left anyways lol.
Because, as has been said so many times before, if EHG have a view on how easy/hard they want people to get gear (which they do), they can either accomplish that through trade or SSF-friendly drop rates. People being people will exploit explore any conceivable loop holes because that is what we are hardwired to do. You can argue that there’s some form of middle ground by putting some form of restrictions on the trade side of the equation in order to not need to nerf the drop rates side of things.
This is just as true now as it was the last time someone said “I don’t understand why we can’t just have both”.
It has 2, normal and masochist. All those other things you mentioned are game modes not difficulties (game modes have tweaked rule sets but aren’t necessarily more difficult). The devs have also said that they don’t want to split the community up too much.
And 5 mins later you’re done and can start looking for the gear for your desired build.
I know I’ve said this before but I don’t get how it’s “worse and more restrictive” unless you don’t like the ui. You still have to be playing with the other person when the item drops (can’t remember how D3 handles drops while doing split bounties) and they still have to be in the same zone as you to grab the item.
I play D3 seasons only for the “I want to reach grift xxx!” part. The whole leveling and equipping basic gear stuff is just tiresome.
In D3 you can trade everything that was dropped while you play togheter. You can freely trade crafting mats (not sure about breath tbh) money jewls up to set items. That’s less retrictive then LE gifting is or was mentioned to be with restrictions to shards and stuff afaik.
Bounties work different because you simply open the bags in the end and you get said bags everywhere but that’s not the point.
In D3 I throw the item on the ground and either someone picks it up or I take it back and dismantle it. In LE you have to use the UI and you can’t even make use of the lootfilter because of the crappy UI so you have to look at the item manualy. That’s a counterintuive mess if you ask me and more restrictive by design and system buuuut maybe there are ways to “gift” more stuff but afaik there is no way to trade everything.
Have you ever actually wanted to trade crafting mats? I never have and I’d be quite surprised if many people have.
It’s probably worth trying gifting a crafting mat if you’re capable of not auto-pressing the button to transfer it all to your crafting inventory whenever you open your inventory (I’m not, but given the state of Mike’s inventory on stream he clearly is).
Yes! It’s overcomplicated and time consuming af ^^. Ever had a “Why did you gift me this piece of trash?” discussions with a new player who didn’t even knew the stats on the item were BiS for him on a max rolled base that is also very good or BiS depending on the setup?
I had such things maaaany times and if I was able to throw it on the floor and it lights up like a christmass tree in the lootfilter (aka I use the lootfilter I found on the internet why do you ask?) things are clear in one go.
Yes
You can simply take the shards out of your crafting inventory when you use the forge screen.
TBF, the devs have said many times (vis-a-vis the loot filter and not wanting to include things like Forging Potential, LP, how good a roll the implicits are, etc) that they want players to interact with the loot system rather than just have the game automate that side of things, so “having to look at the item manually” is intended.
Yeah, I’d like to trade shards/etc as well. I just don’t think people do that in D3.
Lol I had such conversations with friends who started playing games later then I did so no randoms involved.
Sure and I look at every item I recolored in the lootfilter manualy but it get’s old fast when you play with unexperienced people. This might get better over time but it is another steping stone.
BTW do you get why I calle it a dumped down D3 System? There aren’t that much differences to begin with but foundational game systems and restrictions the devs plan to put in make it less convinient then D3 trade even if you use the 1:1 trade there.
