Following @Voctor explanation, I can understand why MG is better than CoF, but I also agree with what you’re saying : you get an edge in trading only if you have mastery of the system in order to know what to sell.
My experience in PoE regarding trade is not great : I can’t play enough to stay on top of the economy/inflation and I’d rather play the game than spend time learning the meta and what to look when selling items. Yes, PoE reward player that learned the system upfront but it also means that player that don’t learn the system are handicap.
CoF with target farming means I can play and target farm, without that upfront cost of learning what has value. At the end of the day, if the increased drop rate makes the game fun, albeit less efficient, and that I don’t need to spend my free time learning the economy nor trading items, the CoF gets the job done
I’m not really a fan of features being locked behind rep grinds, but I’m happy to see this course correction and I’m willing to see how it plays out in practice. This kind of thing is why I like EHG.
Exactly that !
I do not care if CoF or MG is more efficient. I do not care if someone cheeses the system with trading/gifting/grouping or RMT (well RMT should be a perma bannable offence anyways).
I want to have fun with my chosen playstyle (SSF CoF with shared stash).
If EHG provides other people ,with different needs, also fun so GREAT. But what I do not want is limiting options for others only cause I want parity for everyone.
Which route I take is a personal choice and that’s it.
A lot of people here seem to think, their personal preference has to be the best choice period and without compromise. I do not concur. You have the choice to take the playstyle you like and have a tradeoff of some kind for the compromise. That this game won’t cater to a specific radical group but actually tries to include as many players as possible is absolutely mind blowing.
Please do not make this another we vs them. I know a lot of games and especially PoE set a certain example and a lot of people think that system is great. If you think so, fine but please do not try to make LE a second PoE, Grim Dawn, Torchlight or Diablo X. Let LE be LE
Not particularly interested in trade or no-trade, just wanted to say I am extremely impressed by the creativity and quality of the solution EHG found.
Pure genius! You guys are incredible!!!
Almost makes me wish you would give up on the cycles thing, just release this game and start working on another one, I want to see what so much creativity could bring to other genres!
(This is a joke. Sort of.)
Yes. Any item traded will gain MG rank requirement.
Gold is paid to the seller. Favour is a requirement for trade. Kind of like a trade tax paid to the system, not to players.
Two players can trade directly without using Bazaar but I can’t answer if they are required to be in a certain zone. Never seen it mentioned yet so far.
And you know that how? They said you’d be able to search for some very specific stuff, its not like the original version where you’d be wandering aimlessly through vast amounts of crap at a car boot sale.
That’s to avoid trading becoming the main focus of getting your loot while still allowing you to get specific upgrades but also not being able to get everything instantly (and i don’t mean that gear is sent to you instantly when you buy it).
That’s fair enough, but unless you want LE to turn into PoE’s trade, there needs to be something.
I didn’t chime in during the big trade debates (other people were able to better articulate my disappointment) but I’m really excited about this direction. Yes, it’s certainly more complicated than choosing a checkbox during character creation but it’s both more flavourful and interesting. This addresses problems POE suffers from (low level bots/RMT mules, price fixing, nonresponsive trades, external search) and the prospect of being able to commit to self-found(-ish) with perks is really interesting.
Feel like my interest in the game has been reinvigorated with this news.
Do you see this as a potential abuse case for faction swapping? So, as a CoF, you swap to MG and buy a bunch of gear with rare affixes you need, bypassing the need to find those rare shards yourself.
I kinda agree with @Shrukn. I mean as a MG you have to rank up to begin to use the feature. Gain the Favor to use the feature. Gain the currency to use the feature. Then you get to actually use the feature, and it does have the potential to be overwhelming UI depending. Then how often are you going to meaningfully engage with the system?
Looking at per character and assuming it is late enough that you have the unlock, favor, gold, and the items are even available how many items are you going to buy? Selling can get hard to track, but most builds have a pretty clear gear optimization.
It just feels like a lot of hoops to jump through for little engagement.
CoF will be similar, in that you will get more benefit at higher ranks and there will be a favour cost (& UI) for the prophecies.
Yes, thats a question that everybody would need to ask themselves when deciding whether they want to choose MG or CoF.
I feel exactly the same about PoE’s trade, but people still do it.
TBH, nobody knows the answers to any of the questions you rightly pose. They’re also balance points/issues that the devs can and will need to tweak around, but as you kinda intimate, whatever level of balance/interaction the devs choose isn’t going to be ideal for everyone and thats when we need to give feedback. The feedback they’re getting now is nice, but it’ll be a lot better when we can get our grubby little mitts on the system.
@EHG_Mike All this talk about trade being deterministic and CoF being still RNG (and thus not as efficient) and you talking about which knob EHG can turn/adjust to try to balance both factions made me realize something.
There are 2 steps to get items in LE : finding a good drop and crafting on it to fit your needs. You mentioned one of the knob you can turn for CoF is drop rate and targeted drop through prophecies. One OTHER knob you could turn is “prophecies that impact the crafting side”. some example
the next Glyph of hope you use has 100% chance to reduce Crafting potential by only 1
The next rune of removal will only target a prefix
the next glyph of despair is twice as likely to seal the attribute
Is it something you have already considered, or do you not want to touch LE crafting (which is fine and fun as-is by the way)
Yes I agree now everything is nebulous. I just wanted to attempt to give a bit of feedback without referencing other separate systems. I think this trade debate often devolves into praising or condemning other features/games. With the desire to safeguard against abuse of a system, any system, its important to not make it so difficult that there is functionally nothing to safeguard.
Someone said, and I forget who, that Fear is the enemy of love in reference to game design. I think it might have been Bellular speaking about wow mythic+, but basically you get so wrapped up in protecting something out of fear you end up damaging it and how players interact with it.
No, this is not an abuse case. This scenario is missing some steps.
After you swap, you would first have to vendor some items, craft them to a point where you could use them a bit. Level up your MG rank and gain a bunch of favor. Then buy all the items you want as though you were MG all along but took a massive detour and wasted a ton of time as CoF.
If the implied last step of this scenario is then to swap back to CoF, you end up swapping back and putting your original gear back on.
So the potential for abuse here is negative as this would put you right back where you started with no gain and a ton of wasted time.
Edit: I was mistaken that the final step was to shatter the purchased items for use in CoF and while this is possible, it’s still not an abuse case because you could just get those same crafting materials as CoF while still utilizing the other CoF benefits and not eating up time gaining MG favor with a lesser gearset.
We have considered this for sure and it’s in the conversation. The one caveat is that these bonuses can only apply to items that are CoF tagged like the example rank 2 perk shows in CoF.
Sorry I wasn’t clear - the intention was to shatter the traded gear for rare shards, then swap back to CoF and use those shards for crafting items that can be used as a CoF. Unless of course I’m missing something and this doesn’t lead to valid CoF gear.
But even so it sounds like it’d be a lot of work to swap, gear up, rank up and get enough favour to buy the desired items. And it’d probably end up not being worth it.
Oh yea, you can do that. It’s still just going to be better to stay as CoF. You can just use the CoF systems to farm those same affixes and call it a day.
