It’s still undecided, the CoF area wouldn’t serve much of a purpose but it could be cool.
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I’m so proud of this team I could cry thanks EHG
Having this information makes it more important for Resonance to be acquired at a reasonable rate and with the ability to be applied to any item type (generic/universal).
This is the same info in the initial post so I’m not quite sure what’s different.
The purpose of resonance is to allow you to gift the really stand out items that really hurt when they drop alone to the people you play with most frequently. It’s not for creating an open gifting environment with your friends list.
We don’t know what the minimum duration that this will be yet.
It’s a lot easier for us to reduce the duration that extend it so we will likely start with it slightly on the high side. I’m not talking anything ridiculous like 24 hours of playtime for one but it needs to be significant.
This timer is one of the key elements that keeps RMT at bay.
It should hopefully feel very natural.
It also doesn’t matter what order the item and the resonance drop in, so if you are short, just play together and you can eventually give it over.
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Not true, this is the only information presented regarding resonance from the initial post.
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Resonance can be used to gift items between friends regardless of whether the item has been dropped when playing together
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Resonance drops require time investment with players.
How this reads: After playing with a friend for “a very extended period of time”, players will start to receive Resonance drops.
However, you have now mentioned that:
Meaning that there is now a further requirement that the players must be together to consistently get Resonance.
This Resonance system does not seem to really resolve the issues I had with how restrictive the gifting system is. If this was a system where you had to play for several hours with a friend, then you started getting Resonance drops (even when not playing together) it would be a better system.
I am going to be honest, this system does not seem to really resolve any of the issues that have been discussed.
I was going to bicker about what it actually says but that doesn’t matter.
If we were to implement the system which you are recommending, it would enable full open trade for CoF. This is something we aren’t prepared to do.
I’m sorry but if you’re looking for more open trading among friends than the resonance system offers, you’ll need to play as MG.
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Great ideas! I’m excited for the two faction idea. I will be making a video on this announcement for my channel soon, and I think my viewers will be excited for this announcement as well.
I thought that was kinda obvious.
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Yeah. It’s directly addressing the concern that we’ve been bringing up for play between friends with no nerfed drop rates: that one build-enabling item that drops while your friend is offline.
Honestly I’m glad there wont be 1k post about “why trade should be in the game” everywhere but, honestly I’m extremely disappointed with the total 180 as it pertains to the Trade issue. Lets keep it real this is just SSF with a different coat of paint. Which means a measly % buff toward Runes and Affixes or even double legendary potential isn’t nearly close enough to get people to even consider playing this in this faction for more then a few hours out of novelty. on top of that the balancing act of drop rates and the capitalisms simulator will drastically sap resources.
In the Initial post you guys made on trade I was hopeful this would be a game about playing the game and you’d get to interact with other players and do things under that ideology but, this is the first massive step away from that.
I know that’s just me but, I was really forward to an ARPG where I wouldn’t have to play by myself because I didn’t want to run 4 tabs and disable all chat aside from PMs to play the economy simulator.
Edited due to massive oversight that caused confusion
I’m sorry if this isn’t the case but I think we might not quite have communicated the details of the system properly. Have you read through the FAQ section at the bottom of the initial post yet?
I’d also like to avoid calling CoF, SSF. While it will work on SSF, it’s designed to be exactly what you’re looking for I think.
The rewards listed for both are examples, each goes up to rank 10 and CoF will also have access to prophecies which will be a favor sink similar to how the bazaar is the favor sink for MG.
and hey, it might just not be what you’re looking for.
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For me any my experience if CoF can deliver the same or better rewards as it is currently I will be happy. It will be a matter if tuning so that MG and CoF are similar power levels but I think the Idea and goal is solid.
In terms of sapping resources, also consider that a large player base means more people supporting the devs and does provide resources for the team to grow. If LE was a game made specifically to my tastes, I would do any trade but this is definitely the best solution I’ve seen anyone offer that can make many people happy (if executed well)
Which, as Mike said, is what resonances are for. Not as a general free trade mechanic for your friends list (assuming you play enough with them, but for those rare (as in, infrequently dropped, not item quality) drops that happen when your friend isn’t around. The scenario that a lot of people who didn’t like gifting brought up as a reason for trade.
It’s not a 180, as was brought up many times in all the other screeching threads about gifting, the devs have wanted some form of trade in the game since the beginning, it’s even in the kickstarter.
Apart from, you know, the bit where you can trade if you want. With other people via an AH. 'Cause that’s always a key part of SSF in my experience.
We don’t know what the buffs will be or how much, so I’m surprised you’ve been able to discren them from such a (deliberately) detail-light post.
And if that is what floats your boat, CoF is for you.
From what Mike has been saying, that’s the plan. The drop rates start off a bit worse than current (how worse we don’t know) but then as you rank up in CoF they attain parity with the current drop rates then get better at max rank. Plus prophecies (however they’ll affect it).
And if trade is your preference then you can use the AH to mitigate the lower drop rates.
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Ahh my bad that’s a fair point. Just an AH that you honestly have no reason to ever use as you’re playing COF isn’t exactly what I personally don’t see as super viable or useful. In harmony with that thought the FAQ also says if you get a COF item a gift you need to swap and rank up to use it which is another potent barrier/deterrent but, yea that’s fair you can trade and the devs asked not call it SSF so I won’t.
I wasn’t able to discern anything you wouldn’t have been able to given they gave us a diagram that shows ranks 2, 4 and, 6? As well as the devs explicitly saying
And they’re not giving some absurd % drop increases that are Flat or, Additive or, won’t need to be scaled back so COF is objectively just a better experience.
With this in mind I personally believe the word measly is fair as there’s little else it can be based of what’s been shown and what’s in the FAQ. You also have to consider no matter how you want spin it both factions are now in a competition for players. Now are these things subject to change? can the numbers be altered? of course but, I can only draw conclusions from what’s here now.
why play COF and only have gifting as an option if the bonuses aren’t enough to outweigh the convivence, speed and ease of access for trading which only requires I farm for gold? This now will sit at the fore front of any thought that happens before me or anyone else decides to load up the game and play.
THIS IS ON ME 100% this is actually a typo. (I think that’s the right word) I have the spelling and grammar of a toddler so I’m using tools to try and help me improve and they are rather aggressive. I meant to say “I was Really looking forward to an ARPG where I wouldn’t have to be play by myself because I didn’t want to run 4 tabs and disable all chat aside from PMs to play economy simulator” I apologize for any confusion that created.
While on this point yes I think its fair to make the prediction of this effectively becoming a single player game for me and anyone else who is like minded on the matter. Theres 0 reason to play with people form the other faction we won’t get loot together as drop rates would be higher for COF and trading doesnt make this any better as according to the FAQ
Its effectively telling the recipient they will need to just play the game over to level up (its account wide the rank for factions so there’s no reason not to just make a new char) just to be able to use this item. I can’t think of anyone who will go to this hassle for a few items when they can just buy them.
I also can’t see a reason to do anything with CoF players at this stage either based off what they’ve shown. If you’re doing CoF there little to no reason to interact with other players much if any at all because you have to ask yourself why party up with other CoF players? You’ll already be getting presumably the drops you want/need and unless there’s a huge spike in difficulty the only time you’d see another CoF player is the furthest point in the end game.
The game I had hoped was on the way was one where you and your buddies could party up, run through Eterna catching bodies and, fighting bosses getting fat loot, (*maybe *gifting when you don’t need a drop or you got a dud), then you farm and repeat but, with this divided player base I can’t see this happening. I can’t for the life of me see a reason to intermingle factions and I can’t see any reason at for all of the COF faction to not just launch this game in anything other then solo-only.
Hello Thank you for the Reply Mike_W. As you requested I wont call it SSF any more even if it really feels like it is. My using the word measly is because from what is shown in the diagrams ( the only things that have numbers) It quite honestly feels that way given both factions now have to compete with each other for players. That the prophecies haven’t left cover yet so there’s no way for me to gauge their strength yet.
I understand these are initial shots and can always be changed but I can only draw conclusions from what is here in front of me now.
There’s also a massive oversight in my original post
This is what I was going for but, I have multiple tools and assist on at the same time to help me improve spelling and grammar as well as sentence structure and I guess it made some last minute edits I didn’t check.
So, if i understand this correctly, you want the enhanced drop rates and better target farming of CoF and being able to buy whatever specific piece of gear with specific affixes that you want from an AH. The AH isn’t supposed to be used to bypass sucky rng if you’re playing as CoF. CoF has improved drop rates and better target farming (just how improved and how much better nobody knows, just like we don’t know how much toull be interacting with the AH as MG).
Yes, 'cause as MG you’ve got the AH to help mitigate bad luck. The enhanced drop rates/prophecies are for CoF. Kinda sounds like you want all the best skills and passives of every class to build an uber character.
So you accept that the devs didn’t give the specifics of how much of a buff to drop rates CoF is giving? That was my only point. The devs are going to try to balance the two so neither faction is too much better on average than the other. Which is what balancing the numbers (drop rate enhancements, favour costs, etc) is for which is why they’ve not given those details to us.
Probably not, no.
Funny, given there are other posts saying the exact opposite makes me think the 1 ideas are pretty good in principle.
We don’t know. Being able to buy the specific item you want withe the exact modifiers you want is a phenomenally powerful thing so both nesd to be balanced together. As I’ve (& the devs) said repeatedly.
You do know that the factions aren’t real? They aren’t cimpanies trying to sell stuff to you to make a profit and pay staff, they’re just fluff/lore/story surrounding a mechanic to help the player enjoy playing the more. Anthropomorphising them does no-one any good.
Exactly, the 2 factions need to be balanced (ish), it’s a novel concept that rarely gets raised in game forums. Though, one point you may have missed, trading will require favour and rank.
Well, hopefully “you or anyone else” will have actually read up about the 2 factions.
Fortunately you won’t have to, this isn’t PoE, trade can be done via AH or in person (both will have the same favour requirements) whichever floats your boat. Though, the devs don’t want people to “play economy simulator”.
Not quite. A) drops are better in a group, B)if you are CoF and your (CoF or MG) mate drops an item you want, they can gift it to you(using resonance if you weren’t in game/party/zone when it happened). And if you’re MG, well, tou gave the AH to use to buy stuff.
Or maintain 2 gear sets, as the devs have aaid a lot.
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Exactly, that is the entire point. They dont want us to play CoF with drop rate buffs then quickly switch toG to trade.
To, erm, play with them? You know, for the fun of killing mobs and finding loot together. Sorry if that’s too arcane a concept for you. Plus you’ll still be able to gift or use resonances and if you’re both CoF you’ll be able to use the gear.
And that is the game we’re getting. If you don’t want to party up, that’s your choice.
You do you, if that’s how you want to play the game, you can.
For what gain? Genuinely curious.
No I don’t. in fact I don’t want trade at all maybe gifting but, that is it. I think I’ve been pretty clear on this from the start.
again No I do not want trading or an AH of any kind and the rest of what I typed I feel supports this so, I have no idea where you’re getting this idea from? Features in a game for me and everyone else I’ve ever spoken to isn’t just a checklist of what is or isn’t in a game. Features are fleshed out, viable and, useful additions to a stand alone system.
As this whole paragraph states It doesn’t check the boxes for being useful or viable. Its like a colorblind assist feature that only lets you change the color of some things to green or red some of the time. This isn’t a colorblind assist feature its an item checked off a list that Isn’t/barely usable.
As I stated I don’t want any trade so I’m not looking to make any kind of uber character
was the point I was making.
another Typo or rather miss word all together “So COF isn’t just a better experience” (these tools really do not like contractions it seems). Also when this is read in context with the rest of the sentence it is a part of the intent is a lot easier to see.
I don’t really understand this like at all? You can only be in one faction at a time and each faction has clear limits and barriers to them intermingling. This in conjunction with the fact unless you’re willing to start from 0 switching to the other faction isn’t exactly a glowing prospect. Both factions by very definition are in competition. Each one is putting out an argument and incentives to choose their side over the other. They will be adjusted, tuned and, maybe even balanced to better achieve the fantasy they are describing to players. I personally do not see any Anthropomorphising here at all. Just being realistic.
I answered this already in this post. I’ll quote it again in case the formatting is weird.
I quoted these two one after the other so I can answer both at one time. The dev’s did mention having to maintain two gear sets. now its important to know these things are not just instantly done no it is in fact a three stop process. The “maintain two gear sets” is Step 3
- pick a league and play the game with you and your buddie
- find sick loot and then trade them with friends if they are there or with resonance which is
Then have the recipient either make a new character or swap factions and start from zero grinding out rep to increase their faction level to be able to use the item as the devs stated
- Keep doing this over and over to be able to maintain two gear sets.
Do you see the issue I’m seeing here? In order to maintain two gear you must do one of the following
A.) level two chars in two factions at once.
B.) swap factions and level them on the same char.
C.) don’t do trades with people from other guilds at all because of all the leg work you’ll just have to repeat and just buy them from the AH or farm them yourself.
So given option A and B aren’t great as they have lots of time commitment and barriers to them our viable solution is C.) so again I ask you again why even play with people from the other guild? This also the solution to statement I posed earlier
So I didn’t include this earlier because in truth this is a loophole that will need to be addressed. If you do not see what I mean take this example. Player A and Player B are both CoF we go fight bosses. Player A is max faction level player B just joined. Player A will get the fat look Player B is still on reduced rates. Player A then boosts Player B by gifting all drops breezing through the entirety of the game. Yes this can happen and will happen as there is no limit as it stands on trades aside from resonance and location.
This is also assuming they want to just actually fight bosses as opposed to just ya know farming gold and just buying items. Under normal conditions dealing with the beast knows as convivence is hard enough now you’ll need to convince people to want to do and as I’ve stated before with what they’ve shown I just do not see it.
For what gain? How about to remain in the game? The MG and CoF are not companies but, EHG Is and, like all of them they have to make decisions. If 98% of players want to live in the MG world and 2% want CoF this is ok but, you have to consider something important. Both take the same significant amount of time and resources to maintain. Time, Money and, Man power is not unlimited so questions will have to raised.
A.) Continue to dump money and time into both projects despite one of them being extremely underutilized and ignore the fact that talent (there’s a lot on this team dev team) could be better used anywhere else
B.) Stop pouring money into what has become a pit of wasted resources.
As I stated earlier Convivence is already hard enough to overcome (people will order pizza from a chain and get rehydrated food vs going to a local pizza place) and that is what the MG effectively is. You go out and find the best gold and rep farm and you stick to it. You buy your way through the game. CoF is the opposite by its very design its the least convenient option that could exist. Better drop rates and prophecies are nice but, they aren’t guarantees and an AH to supplement this is still no guarantee as any kind of trade in CoF has to be extremely hard restricted to balance it.
Fast vs slow these two factions are in competition for your time which is ultimately the proof either system is not a waste of resources. Also to be clear this is something unique for CoF . Lets say MG just is not worth the effort or time to farm the money and rep. 98% go to the CoF and 2% to MG. positions are reversed the situation is the same.
What Llama was pointing out is the details are so sparce at this point that drawing any conclusions about the balance between CoF and MG is futile right now. The only thing we can really go off of is the devs stated intention to have both relatively balanced so that neither has a massive advantage. If they achieve that goal then it sounds like you’re good to go. If not, then we’ll need to provide feedback so that they can adjust and get it in line with their own stated goals.
I’m really confused by some of your statements. Are you talking about if you’re playing with a friend who wants to trade in MG and you’re CoF and you’re giving them a CoF item? Otherwise, you wouldn’t need to do any of that.
Do you see the issue I’m seeing here? In order to maintain two gear you must do one of the following
Why are you maintaining two gear sets? Didn’t you state previously that you don’t want to trade? I’m guessing this is on the assumption that trade will be too good, but then why are you switching back to CoF if you don’t think it’s worth it? Again, I’m very confused as to how all of these assumptions are falling into place in this argument. The assumptions are so baked in and not clearly stated that it’s hard to find the premises of your argument which makes it hard to drill down and address them.
If 98% of players want to live in the MG world and 2% want CoF this is ok but, you have to consider something important.
I guess this is an assumption you’re making? I’m not sure where you came up with the idea that it would be such a skewed system. Most of what we’re seeing in the community is a ton of excitement for CoF. So much so that I’d be more concerned about something closer to the opposite: that CoF is so popular that there isn’t a healthy economy for MG.
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I dont understand why this keeps happening? But ive said at least 6 times i dont want trade of any sort what so ever. I said in ever post on the reddit, Every post here and, at the start of the post you’re replying to right now. I dont think i can be any more clear on that.
Everything in the post I made was in response to the argiments for the system Llama put forward. Not my support or what I’m going to be doing.
And to your comments about the 98% read the rest of the post. It covers that too.
In fact id highly just recommend the entire paragraph/full sentence each of your quotes is pulled from. Given the answer is either right before or right after.
Ok well, if your conclusion is “I don’t want trade” and your premise is “I don’t like trade” there’s nothing I can or want to do for you. Many people want trade and they deserve to have their voices heard just like those who want to avoid trade, so if a system that lets you play without trade while others get to play the game they want isn’t for you then, I guess this game isn’t for you.
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