A healthy dose of skepticism is ALWAYS warranted. But a healthy dose of knowing how to give constructive criticism is one thing I find lacking it MUCH of the internet. Instead it’s a instantaneous leap to the sky is falling. (this is not directed specifically at you.)
So, in light of this, while your gut is telling you one thing, I’d say EHG has at least demonstrated a pretty strong track record of listening and adapting. Which is why I keep reiterating how much I’m looking forward to March.
And here’s another funny anecdote. I’ll lay odds, whatever happens in March, there will be the people who, if they don’t get EXACTLY how they think it should be, will be raging in the street…forum. From both sides. Because apparently these days actual real compromise means 'if you’re not on my side than you’re on their’s."
Again, none of this is directed at you specifically. It’s an atmosphere that seems to be permeating this particular topic.
The sad thing is this kind of drama is in most cases needed to get something moving. We don’t see this only in the internet there are a lot of movements out there that use these kind of tactics.
Imagine someone feeling betrayed and not powerfull enough to be heared in a healthy debate with facts… said people, no matter how sad an pathetic it is, can only answer with emotions when they are presented with facts while they take every word as an insult.
That’s the dark place our world is moving to but let’s not derail this to much.
There are simply people out there that feel the world is ending and the game is dieing and everything that was good and just comes to an end. I don’t think anyone here is in the “I don’t give a F about the game and I write some words because reasons…” boat and a lot of people are concerned on both sides of the debate. I think it’s okay to let people speak their mind no matter how doom and gloom things get.
I’d agree, though I don’t find it helpful, if it comes with actual constructive commentary.
For me apples, for the most part, are too sweet. So I tend to gravitate toward more tart versions.
ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR MINE, Apples are the worst fruit EVAR!!! They’ve got too much sugar and it feels like your sucking on a bottle of soda when you eat them. People who like apples are like low hanging fruit.
One of those two - attempts - to leave out the drama.
DISCLAIMER: This is entirely an example, and in no way is meant to reflect my choice of fruit.
Oh, yeah. I’m not necessarily saying that’s how it will play out, just that it’s a very common scenario. If the “yes trade” Gloom and Doomers leave, what incentive is there to revisit trade? This isn’t skepticism, it’s an honest question.
Those resources could be used to do many other things, than work on an already controvesial subject that has already (more or less) played its course with the playerbase. Unless they are hoping to win back the jilted lover(s), I wouldn’t imagine it would be something addressed ever again.
It’s really just an inference, given the drastic shift in stance on the topic, and the sudden influx of staunch supporters on the issue (who previously weren’t as vocal about the possibility of trade bringing every evil available on the internet with it).
I have zero problem with the D3 “gifting” style of trade, I like it. But, trade is not a big deal to me in the first place so my opinion is pretty shallow.
With all the discussion going on maybe EHG will try to find some kind of a middle ground that can make the “trade” crowd a little happier.
Those “internal testers” would be employees, you can’t really blame the change in stance on the CTs.
That’s the bit that’s not true. Both sides were saying “daed gaem” if it didn’t align with their particular stance/viewpoint.
I thought it was macaroni they weren’t going to have anything to do with. Or cheese? Or something. TBH, “mac and cheese” isn’t a very big thing over here so I don’t think it’ll be a particularly big issue what form of pasta or dairy EHG do not wish to be associated with.
Because the devs know that a decently-sized segment of gamers enjoy trade (in an open form a’la D2/etc) and a lot just want to be able to give stuff to their friends that they found when their friends weren’t in the same party/zone. And I don’t think you’d get “enough” to leave for EHG to consider gifting sufficient since a certain % of new users will fall into that bucket so there will always be a portion of the community on the pro-trade side of the discussion.
Viewing both sides as if all people that are more with one side having the same exact opinion or giving same statements is already kinda silly.
Also the term “dead game” or “the game will die” might mean something different to different people.
I said that I never saw someone on the no-trade camp saying the game would die when they implement trade. Only the opposite, where people that want trade and are disappointed said that this will have overaching imapct on the games success (aka the game will be dead).
Even in the bazaar-as-AH-not-a-car-boot-sale-monstrosity thread back in 2018, EHG were certainly aware that free and unrestricted trade could have u desirable consequences including RMT and the collapse of civilisation due to the Rise of the Machines ™.
With “both sides” he meant the traders and the no-traders. There were a lot of comments saying that trade would break the game and is bad for the game/community. If you never saw comments in that regard, you didn’t read many if the no-trade comments.
Yeah, but as has been shown in every online game since…forever, simply making a game online, and adding multiplayer brings undesirable consequences. Neutering either to basic uselessness just makes the effort to provide them… well… wasted.
“Hey, we’ve added multiplayer. However, we decided that letting you group with just…anyone… brings with it a possibility of abuse. Whether it be in the form of leveling services, or RMT boss carries, or other nefarious scenarios, we’ve decided that it’s just too risky. As a result, you will only be allowed to group with friends that you have known for at least 10 years.”
This level of cognitive dissonance is admirable. This whole thing wouldn’t even be an issue if we all had it.
Somehow you missed all the people saying RMT and “pay to win” would infest the game. Or that people would be in top gear without even quoteunquote playing the game. Or how drops rates would become insufferably terrible, in order to balance against trade. Or, or or, any of the other multitude of boogeymen that would ruin this game, and doom it for all eternity. All of which would ruin the game, and people would stop playing only hours after they began, because things would be so boring, content would be devoured in seconds and no challenge would be available for them.
I did read them, but most of the no-trade camp was a lot less “doom and gloom game will be dead if they implement trade”.
Sure there were a lot of people even on the no-trade camp that were very vocal and had strong opinions.
But generally I would say the pro-trade camp was a lot more doom and gloom “game will be dead”
I really was only talking about the game will be DOA comments and opinions.
Not the “this will be better for the game” or " I like this more anyway" comments
Ok now I can really see that we are talking about two different things here.
All these things you mentioned are a lot less “game will be dead” and more like inconveniences for people personally.
While the pro-trade camp had a lot more people that doomed the game overall. (In the sense that the game would literally not live for 1 or 2 years and would be compeltely dead or neglected)
I play in a bit bigger multigaming community and ~800 people revoked their Last Epoch roll because they lost intrest because of the last announcment. People are already jumping the ship and that’s what trade haters want… people who like trade are going back to other games.
On top of it I get the feeling (important… I don’t know it’s just my gut) a lot of people might be confused by the announcment because to me as a non native speaker there is to much room for interpretation and to little facts (again to me you can save time and stop the “Everything is in there!” stuff). Maybe this is all a big missunderstanding who knows?
Both sides have the same oppinions and throw arround the same arguments. Some just say “No trade = dead game!” others say “ma dropratez reeeeeeeeee!”. I’m pretty sure both sides think their statements are the best for LE and help the game in the long run.
On top of that… just as a thinking game: You mention the “dead game” crowd… if there are so many that you keep them in mind there seems to be a substantial ammount of dislike EHG’s stance on the game or leave the game. For me the “dead game” people are an indicator for the ammount of potential players you’ll lose what makes “dead game” statements somewhat important… at least for me.
Yes and the least ammount of people want unrestricted free trade as it seems to me.
Yeah I’m a bit confused as well… the only reason for server sided multiplayer is the leaderboard? Do I miss something?
Yes. Coop gameplay, wether with friends or with strangers.
I know the usual answers:
I don’t need coop
Most people play alone anyways
I don’t have friends
You could also play coop without dedicated servers
Would be better for modding anyways
But I like MP coop gameplay. Maybe I’m the only person in the community or universe… I like a game that let’s me interact with friends or random internet people. This makes a game alive. It’s a kind of meta gameplay.
Playing with real life or internet friends
Playing with strangers just for the feeling not to be alone in the game
Helping people with gear or content
Someone has problems with a boss? Get your uber Julra Killer an help
Someone in your group has a shitty weapon and struggle with content? Just drop him one of your Endgame weapons that is to bad for your char, but op for the other guy. (not possible with the actual gifting system)
I also already know the answers from some others here:
Just teach the people so they can overcome things by themselves, should feel better for them anyways
Helping is lame and takes away the fun for people getting helped
This all allows for RMT services like
boss killing
farming XP
story playthrough
-…
Maybe. But this also is an aspect of online gaming. I don’t like car accidents, but I still drive every day. I don’t want to be robbed, but I leave my house to buy or do things.
Also I like things like helping out people - actively by playing with them. It’s nice to have theoretical guidance, but it’s also nice to have active help.
My first D2 Grandfather Sword was a gift by a stranger. And I didn’t quit instantly because “game was done”. It opened up the game for me to have a really good character to farm other stuff.
Just take a look at the awesome Valheim Body Recovery Squad. These people help you if you lost your body in a dangerous zone and are not able to recover it by yourself. For free.
I see so many people just point out all the negative aspects of MP (or trading). I’d prefer that we look more on the positive aspects of these mechanics and their potential.
My bad I ment why we have server sided MP and not simply P2P. People seem to have 0 problems with P2P games and trade in them or savegame editors or whatever ^^. I just don’t know why there have to be a server authoritve system.
I like MP and I like to play with my friends I don’t touch single player gamers mostly.
That’s why I’m confused… I don’t know if a always online mmorpg like enviorment is important if you don’t play an mmorpg. That’s why I ask if we have servers just for the leaderboards and the chat (The chat I disable 99% of the time because people writing useless stuff ^^). I don’t get it why there have to be servers and I think I overlook something ^^.
