The new defence system and its future

[talkinkorean]

It’s funny. You said you understand the math. And you proceed to demonstrate how you really don’t understand.

@darkdeal

I do understand the math of it. You are being disingenuous with your arguments though. It is purposefully meant to deceive. Every percentage point of resist was worth the same as any other percentage point of resist. To claim that the difference between 74% and 75% is somehow greater than the difference between 25% and 24% is just wrong.

Go quote me where I said the difference between 74% and 75% is greater than between 24% and 25%. I’ll wait. Here I’ll quote myself for you on what I said:

@talkinkorean

Every point of resistance gives you 4% reduction in damage no matter what the assumption is.

@talkinkorean

After understanding the penetration system I can’t see myself going back to the old system of 1% resist = 4% damage reduction.

@talkinkorean

If 1% resist gives me 4% damage reduction, to hell with the other stats, I’m going to get that 1% resist.

@talkinkorean

The penetration scaling is not there to force people to waste slots on resists. I don’t know why people can’t understand the penetration system. It’s there so each percent of damage reduction is what it states it is. You increase your resistance by 1%, you take 1% less damage, not 4%. Without penetration and under the traditional system, you ARE forced to waste slots on resists because for each percent of resist you’re missing, you’re taking a higher percentage of damage. 1% missing and you take 4% more damage. 25% missing and you take 100% more damage. 75% missing and you take 300% more damage. It’s very simple, basic math and to say otherwise flies against what the math tells us.

The only part that even reeks of what you’re accusing me of is below and I’ll concede that it was misspoken and technically erroneous. But never was that purposely misleading.

@talkinkorean

I personally think the area penetration idea is brilliant. Every point of resist is equal in value. Every percent you add is another percent of damage reduction. Nothing wonky like taking double damage because you’re only 25% below max resist.

@darkdeal

Your EXACT arguments about the standard resist systems in games is that being 1% below cap is a 4% increase in damage. That is false framing. The monsters aren’t dealing any more damage than they otherwise would. What is changing is the amount mitigated. You mitigate 1% less.

My exact argument is being 1% below is an increase of 4% damage taken. At this point you’re really nitpicking - yes I wasn’t explicit saying damage taken but I assumed people were intelligent enough to understand that. Apparently not. You mitigate 1% less but the entire basis of disagreement is about damage taken, not damage dealt. Because if the argument is about damage dealt then area penetration does jack shit to differentiate whether the game has penetration or not. 1% resist will always reduce the absolute value of the damage incoming by 1% because 1% of x damage will always be 1% of x damage. Here I’ll quote myself again for you:

@talkinkorean

And I don’t think I said anything about monsters dealing 4% more damage. I said 4% at earlier levels aren’t as impactful as 4% at later levels (because the base number is higher.) There’s nothing to be “wrong” when I didn’t make that statement. Monsters don’t ever deal more damage in relation to your resists. A monster dealing 1000 damage will always deal 1000 damage. What resistances do is reduce the incoming damage by a percentage. 1% of 1000 is 10 no matter what. The 4% I’m talking about is the difference in the damage applied to your HP as your resist goes up or down by 1%. If I have 1000 hp and I take 250 damage at 75% resist and take 260 damage at 74%, the damage taken increased by 10. The difference between 250 and 260 is 4%.

Incoming damage: 1000
75% resist: 250 damage taken
74% resist: 260 damage taken
Increase of incoming damage because of the difference in resist values: 10
10/1000 = 1%
(|250 - 260|)/250 = 10/250 = .04 = 4%

@darkdeal

In this LE system, if you aren’t res capped, you actual DO take increased damage as the penetration system puts your resists into negative.

No it does not. That’s why I keep telling you that you don’t understand the math. How in the world are you still arguing about this when we’ve given you multiple examples and basic math lessons? All things being equal (incoming damage) you reduce the same amount of incoming damage. Whether you’re below or above the cap, the incoming damage is always reduced by a set percentage. 5% resist will reduce 1000 damage to 950. -5% resist will increase your damage taken to 1050. It’s an absolute value. So yes while you’re technically right, consider what LE said when introducing penetration system:

@Trasochi

Damage dealt by all enemies has been reduced across the board with this new scaling in mind.

By introducing area penetration, they reduced damage across the board AND increased base HP. You don’t like the concept, but I’m fine with it since it creates a situation (conceptually) where you’re not taking 100% increased damage just being 25% below the cap. Being 25% below the cap means taking 25% more damage. That is factually correct and mathematically irrefutable.

@darkdeal

So while resistances in this game are not as impactful in LE as they are in other games when it comes to mitigating damage, the fact that the game innately has penetration makes resistances feel mandatory just to not be put into negatives and take increased damage. The LE system has achieved almost a paradoxical effect of being less useful but still “mandatory”. Some of that is blamed on the ease of reaching the cap though.

Being put in the negative increases the same amount of incoming damage. So does being above 0. Monster deals 1000 damage. Going from 20% to 10% increases incoming damage by 100. Going from 0% to -10% increases incoming damage by 100. Going from -75% to -65% increases incoming damage by 100. Being in the negative doesn’t inherently make you take more damage. Going from one point in the number line to another point in the line going left increases damage taken. It’s an absolute number regardless of positive or negative. |20 - 10| is the same is |-20 - -10|.

@XLVI_carpo

I really think you guys should take a break from all those numbers and really play the game.

I would if I could having kids isn’t conducive to playing what you want to play.