The illusion of Tier 28

[boardman21]

Hey oh!

This better states what I have been tryimg to say.

Incentive is key

Doesnt have to be hard to obtain

Look at WoW. It has attracted millions of players because there is incentive to olay even if its 30 mins a day because even in 30 mins you can progress and be rewarded for doing so

One last example i want to throw out there is Diablo 2.

You dont have to be level 100 in Diablo 2, but there is incentive to be level 100 and invest into to fully max max max a character.

[Shrukn]

@XLVI_carpo

The grind to level 100 is something that doesn’t seem that rewarding currently. That’s because there’s nothing to really get in reward that feels like being worth the time spent.

People may argue that this is “gating content”. But the other way round it’s creating an incentive to play. Give people something worthy to chase for.

The character progression stagnates too early currently.

I agree, im actually obsessed with level ups/passives etc in these games, gear to me is good to chase but the passive power for me is what I want - I actually really like the XP curve in LE as im simply used to mega grinds for levels (I used to play old school Maple Story as well) plus you dont lose XP on death but at the same time its a decent road to 100 - I have no level 100 character in LE - highest is 92

If I can transfer all my gear to another character who is 20-30 levels lower and they are comparatively as powerful…i dont like that. I want a character who is higher level to be simply way stronger

This has gone off track as it was about gear but I thought about adding the ‘unique passive’ and there could be a system where at 70/80/90 etc you unlock some challenge in End of Time and if you complete it you get the reward - maybe you cannot complete it at 70, you may have to come back at 75 or even 79 but this gives another reason to grind/push etc - like the Labyrinth Ascendancy in PoE but nowhere near as horrible

Some players might not like that again being gated behind a boss etc but currently we do have this anyway with blessings and its a fair system

[Shrukn]

@boardman21

You dont have to be level 100 in Diablo 2, but there is incentive to be level 100 and invest into to fully max max max a character.

Yeah its the same as PoE, generally your build can be ‘done’ by 90-93 and most people dont do higher due to XP loss and you have to make a choice - give up on this character and reroll a new one or invest into a massive grind - however level 100 characters have this edge eeking out slightly more passives at end game compared with very good gear as usually people who grind to 100 invest heavily and the 92 vs 100 become worlds apart

boardman you have mentioned lowering/raising the Skill specializations numbers to give more access but what about if EHG add some blessings for skills you can maybe only get at ‘xx content’ ie you have the option to fight an even stronger monolith boss and you get a unique reward to skill specialization - maybe 1 extra wolf, Aura of Decay area/less dmg taken or Warpath gets the free Rahyeh rune (the pull) etc this also makes characters more unique going down more specific paths

[boardman21]

I would like to see those but IMO I think those fit better on idols

I also hate blessings. There not unique at all. Just stat fluffers. Im ok with the drop rate ones but the rest need to be replaced with something far more incentivizing

An example of some directions they could go would be passive abilities (like mastery bonuses) that are unique.

Or things such as:
Beating empowered bosses give extra idol slots
Beating timelines allow you to place an item in a forge and reroll all its value
Beating a empowered boss opens a forge and allows reroll of stats on a unique
Beating bosses for the first time gives you an attribute point that you can place on any attribute giving you +1 strength or whatever you choose

Idk so many options for something unique

[Shrukn]

I agree, I like your ideas for character milestones more options the better for character development - I like Idols but think they need a rework for some, Ballista idol vs Detonating Arrow idol for example

I actually really like the blessing system as it fills holes but you can also remove them later for something else - I actually get a bit disappointed when I hit the lvl 100 blessing I want on the first try with a nice roll as it feels I have no reason to do that mono again

[nllsq]

Unrewarding is simply unrewarding. It does not necessitate difficulty.

PoE, being a FREE to play microtransactions-dependent game, is designed with trade and grind in mind. I remember doing Delve runs to finally find a six-link recipe, only to see that it needed 1500 linking orbs and I had accumulated 400 in the first two weeks. Just not worth my time. I spent a few hundred hours in SSF and did fine; just not something I plan on continuing.

[McFluffin]

I too don’t like the ridiculous amounts of mats required to craft in PoE. It’s unnecessary tedium that takes away from the core game loop. That doesn’t mean there can’t be other ways to allow for “chase” items, or top ends to builds that require very substantive grinding for those who wish to invest the time and effort into the build. But having those mechanics doesn’t mean a game has to close itself off from players who want to play more casually.

[XLVI_carpo]

I have to admit that I like farming mechanics of some sort.

For example farming faction reputation:

• Equip an item that enables you to collect faction points, 1 point for a killed enemy
• Implement achievements that boost your faction points e.g. collect x amount of faction points in a certain mino timeline and kill the boss grants 1500 FP
• Implement vendors that sell Faction based Uniques (make it several tiers so you get higher quality gear when you have a higher faction reputation level) and special idols with stats you can’t find by looting
• Create a faction gambler that enables you to gamble specific affixes, theme based. A cold theme based faction of frost mages could have a gambler that guarantees at least 1 affix of a certain type (cold themed)
  • melee / cold damage
  • freeze rate multi
  • chill
  • frostbite
  • cold resistance
    …
• implement crafting receipts where you have to gather a certain amount if special shards (maybe also faction based crafting mats that just drop with the faction token equipped) to have a certain outcome when you craft on a white base item

I could go on and on. This is all a mix of stuff MMORPGs or other loot games (Warframe/The Division) do.

What I like with that kind if mechanic is that it takes some rng out of the game and replaces it with just a kind of xp bar. Every minute you play is invested to get closer to a certain goal like getting lvl 3 with a faction to get a certain item. It’s working towards a certain goal and it feels satisfying if you reach your goal after days/weeks of playing towards that goal.

I don’t want to change the looting experience in LE. This is more about offering people different ways to progress their characters. I’d like to see something like this in the future as an additional system. With factions you can add so much stuff and additional content without the need to actually extend the storyline or else. Just put new items in the faction pool with every cycle, remove old ones and make them legacy items, and you have people chasing that stuff.

[boardman21]

@XLVI_carpo

What I like with that kind if mechanic is that it takes some rng out of the game and replaces it with just a kind of xp bar. Every minute you play is invested to get closer to a certain goal like getting lvl 3 with a faction to get a certain item. It’s working towards a certain goal and it feels satisfying if you reach your goal after days/weeks of playing towards that goal.

While arpgs are known for the RNG, I +1 this. Creating such systems where players have incentive and are rewarded or working towards something whether they play 5 mins a week or 12 hours a day needs to be implemented in the future. It creates a better gaming experience for everyone involved.

[XLVI_carpo]

There’s always the opportunity to scale the amount of rng with these systems, too.

So if you have reached a needed amount of faction points, you need to offer certain items to level up. Could be unique items of any tier, from Humming Bee to Shattered Lance Set. Or Exalted items with 1-3 specific stats with a specific min tier.

This would involve rng farming in that process. So many possibilities