The ENTIRE Skill tree system needs to be completely redone. Over 40% of interactions don't work/broken, 70% Useless. (Rant warning, I quit, this game will be at ~100 players in 8 months))

General
81

That’s because my bf said they don’t test because the leads on the project don’t see it as important and it takes away resources. They don’t hire more because of $, and they fix the most important things as they pop up reported by players. Their goal is to get a “working” (definition of working varies) product on the market, get the money flow in, and go from there on.

The reason I’m not going into details, is because I don’t want to reveal company name or endanger his work, also, nobody will believe it anyway. So what’s really the point? Just to clarify to your confusion on the ridiculous nitpick of clearly obfuscated things I don’t want to mention here? Also, what’s happening in that company doesn’t apply to all, so again, where are we going with quoting this? In the end I do have close relation to someone directly in the field who says it’s not cost effective. “Players just let it slide, so why spend money?”
Had I come at you with this type of a reasoning, would it be more valid? Therefore, stop quoting on literally nothing.

Sure, from a point of discussion on what “new” is.
If we’re at a stage where the game is not even released, then everything is new, therefore testing the things that seem logical first, like:

“The game works in this way. There are these type of probable builds the players will go for, how about we make sure we nail them first?”

It was that type of thinking that led me to write that. After the game is released, you test the new things, of course.

Based on logical reasoning. The main problem here is how much resources if any they allocate to this QA.

82

Doesn’t test bugs. Forces a product out on the market and let’s the players fix it to make money faster…

He works for Bethesda.

(I’m joking, but seriously sounds like something Bethesda would do)

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No, it’s not a big company or something like that, so let’s not pollute things with speculation. But it doesn’t matter in the end.

Someones background has no bearing whether their reasoning is valid or not. It’s a fallacious way of thinking. Just because I’m not a vet doesn’t mean I don’t know what a dog is, or I can’t describe its characteristics or come to any kind of conclusion for dogs.

Also me quoting others as their say is valid because they work somewhere is also fallacious reasoning, I really see no point in it.

84

Well, try reading it in the context of the paragraph just before the bolded part :slight_smile:

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m pretty sure there were multiple changes to Detonating Arrow between patch 1.0 and now, and there was even a mention of Jelkhor’s Blast Knife in the patch notes, so it would in fact be one of the things to test.

85

You cannot really predict that. There are many stories and memes floating about this exact type of situation of development vs. customer on the internet :smiley: Here’s a few:

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86

C’mon! DOES do. Bethesda does do this. So much so, that I can’t actually say that it’s not the player’s fault at this point. And I personally think the players should almost never be blamed. Star Citizen players, er, marks. Yeah, they should be blamed.

So Bethesda crowd-sources it’s QA. So if you buy Bethesda software, you know what you are getting into, now reporting bugs is your duty. My question is, how does Bethesda treat it’s QA Tea, er, Players? Does Bethesda say thank you when QA_Bob_Spaceman submits a defect?

:smiley: this is so true, lol. They have definitely taken the, “we need the players, er, customers to test this for us”.

And, on top of that, the whole conversation of ‘safe’ AI… like, how? How do you make safe AI when 1) you can’t definitively say why it comes up with any specific answer and 2) all AI developers are competing with nation states that only care about speed to market? It’s a very good thing it’s not self-directed and seems to regularly veer into hallucinations.

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87

True xD
Users are looking for the most direct shortest, quickest way of achieving things that will spiral out of control. But this should be taken into consideration from developers.

There’s this park at a campus in Netherlands if I’m not mistaken where people made paths onto the grass by walking on it, so they just decided to pave on top of that. It looks ridiculous, but the rest of the grass is beautiful and untouched.

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I guess the developers of that park couldn’t predict that people would walk over the grass :smiley:

89

Even with that context, the further context of my quote entirely being about scaling overrides talking about how many people you need. Since the sentenced “don’t talk to me about scale” when I said nothing about the amount of people needed makes no sense while it does make sense in regard to “the scaling area” conversation.

This is my fault. I’m on my phone so I’m being succinct and it left out context. There were absolutely changes between 1.0 and 1.1, but AFAIK (correct me if I’m wrong) no changes between 1.1 and this cycle reset. I saw someone ask about it post reset and F0lk confirmed it was working before, and Llama reconfirmed that he had noticed it wasn’t working and had reported it too. I’m not sure if that was sometime during 1.1 before the reset or post reset.

90

I definitely wasn’t being fair to Bethesda. Funny enough, my best friend was a massive Bethesda fan boy, to the point that he even argued with me about it. I had told him “if Bethesda spent less time making sure modding was available on release and more time on making sure their game worked, the players wouldn’t be forced to fix their game for them with mods.” and he argued up and down about how modding is good (which I never said it wasn’t) and that my favorite games also have bugs (which wasn’t the point). Then he played Fallout 76 on release and has been just… done with Bethesda. I don’t even think he bought Star Citizen

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91

Mmm okay the QA testing debate is a bit over my head by now. But I stumbled on this bug today (I haven’t used blessing respec tooo much) Ability to spec 2 blessings from the same timeline

I don’t mean to be mean to the LE team, but this is wack. Blessing respec was introduced with 1.1 and this kinda bug should be like one of the first basic tests QA should have done no? and I don’t think this would’ve been a low priority bug that made it through…

92

Yes, you did talk about “scaling” (of a skill’s area), but that doesn’t necessarily mean the word “scale” in the reply to your post talks about the same thing :slight_smile:

You opened with

so, if I join your post + the previous Llama8 post which ends with this:

…then the word “scale” refers to testing scale, not to skill scaling.
Hope it helps :slight_smile:

But the bug about Explosive Trap and Jelkhor was reported prior to 1.1 and was never fixed since, so patches between 1.1 and this cycle don’t matter?

Here’s OP’s original bugreport: Detonating Arrow melee attack (jhakarts blast knife) + Hold This node from explosive trap doesn’t attach trap on hit

On a more positive note, 1.1.7.5 Hotfix is out and the Warpath issue I referenced apparently got fixed, yey :tada:

93

I assume that is what EHG did as well.

94

Except Llama also didn’t use the word “scale”. So between Llama and Myself, only I used the word “scale” or “scaling” that she was replying to. You can try to extrapolate meaning from nuance and implications. But occam’s razor, mate, “the simplest explanation is usually the best one.”

Admittedly, I was going off of what F0lk and Llama said at the start of this thread (which is wild, as this thread feels way more than almost 2 days old lol). So you’re right, it should have been tested and fixed. Though I found another thread where someone mentioned it didn’t work with Shift as a melee attack either, so it’s likely a bug with what “hold this” recognizes as a melee skill. Sure would be great if EHG responded to bug reports to let us know they were aware of the issues…

95

The discussion already moved on, and nobody mentions skill scaling except you, so …

Here’s an idea. If you need to be 100% sure, ask Kiwitus what it meant :+1:

Yep.
Here’s another idea. Community can set up its own bugtracker. There are free solutions like Bugzilla or Mantis. Slap it on a freehosting service and done :wink:

96

I assume they don’t do it because there are hundreds (if not thousands) of bugs on the list. And I expect, especially at early days of a major patch, that they get many thousands of bug reports. So they’re have to hire a team just to keep replying to all of them.

As a general rule, and this is from EHG’s history so far, you can expect that if you suggested something on this forum, or if you reported a bug on this forum or via the game report tool, they’re aware of it.
You won’t know the priority they’ve set for the fix or when it will be fixed, but you can safely assume they’re aware of it.

Regarding the specific bug you’re discussing Jelkhor, you can safely assume they’re aware of it as well, and that it’s on the list of things to fix. Which, again, is likely numbered on the hundreds or thousands of things to fix.

And before someone says it, no, it’s not because they’re sloppy. It’s because any software will have hundreds or thousands of bugs as long as it’s big enough. And the more interconnecting parts it has, the more bugs it will have.
So you give different priorities for the bugs, while at the same time you also have to keep working on new features. Because no software these days can focus on just fixing bugs and staying otherwise stale while they do that.

This leads to a lot of people complaining about not fixing bug X even though it should be a relatively simple fix. Which is true (although many times things that seem like simple fixes really aren’t that simple). But usually there are also dozens or more of similar bugs that should be a relatively simple fix.

As an example, Microsoft (which has thousands of developers working on their products) has had a bug on SQL Server Management Studio where sometimes it “forgets” the saved passwords for some connections. And you try to force it to remember them again and sometimes it doesn’t. And sometimes it does for a few times and then forgets it again.
This has been around for many years and in several different versions of SSMS.

So what’s my point with all this? Simply that if EHG wasn’t fixing bugs at all you could legitimately complain about existing bugs. But they do a decent job of tackling a bunch of them each with each patch and they even do a bigger push and extra patches for the real important ones (like the stash tabs freezing).
So yes, while it’s annoying to know that a bug has been around for years, it’s not because of incompetence or unwillingness to fix them. It’s just because there are lots of them to fix and you have to assign priorities based on their severity, how easy it is to fix and how prone that fix is to break something else.

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97

That wasn’t the bug I reported. If you have Jhelkor’s equipped then Explosive Trap doesn’t appear to proc Detonating Arrow at all, even if the trap is within melee range of a valid target (since DA is now a melee skill, I wondered if ET would use DA on a melee range mob, it doesn’t).

98

I don’t think that’s a bug, since it’s converted to melee and that node says “shoots a Detonating Arrow”. But I’ve seen weirder interactions, so what do I know lol

99

Which is why I wondered if it would apply a DA in melee range, rather than “throwing” (or something) a DA like a satchel charge.

100

How would something like this break? Generally something can’t come from nothing no? I would assume some thing else touched a code bit? Genuine curious

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