Oh no?
Ok, so company doesn’t test it and later players find that this crit node is actually applying to DoT damage as a common multiplier. What happens next?
More “yous” here saying the company is shit and game industry is dead…
You’re way beyond the line with your claims. You even brought up our deceased fellow to try and justify your anger towards the company, implying people will die before EHG fix their bugs.
Please, just stop. I’m sure you got something better to do, since you don’t think you have any responsibilities in helping making this game better.
BS.
Only 10 nodes out of (however many there are) are relevant for a particular skill. Because they directly affect the skill and not some broad general thing.
You have 3 masteries and 1 base, all the nodes there amount to 40ish things that will affect your build.
There’s literally no reason to test if a node A for shamans works with node B from druids if both nodes don’t affect a shared skill. This eliminates the millions of combinations.
“Your” I did no such thing. I didn’t name anyone, I don’t even know of its true. The reality of it is terrifying. If you’re too sentimental to talk about possibilities don’t reply with this butt-hurt bs.
Once again, no one is denying that it should have been caught prior to being released. It also could have been working before that patch and got changed by accident. Who knows.
The fact of the matter was that players using the ability and it becoming meta is what allowed the devs to catch it, in this specific case.
Actually no, very few skills interact with each other directly.
Plus, we were literally talking about testing the basic functionality.
If skill passive description says you get % of attribute as Ward, then you use the skill with said passive and check if the correct amount of Ward appears.
Unbalanced things are not the issue discussed here. Things that don’t work at all/don’t work as it says they should, that’s being discussed.
Yes, a broad statement about the gaming industry which indeed has gone to shit. Without dispute. Ask 1.000 people, 90% of them will agree.
And that thing about people dying before EHG fixes their bugs? It’s literally true. If you’re personally invested in this and had someone that passed away who loved this game and waited for it to be better, my condolences.
It was just an offhand comment connected to the rest of the thread. Stop digging too deep into it, and take it for what it is. There’s no implications, no hidden meanings. If I had something to say I’d say it directly.
(There was an argument going on which stated that reporting mattered, and old bugs were brought up. It was in relation to that. So stop it.)
No, you really don’t need to test this. Kiwitus is right.
In actual companies, there are processes for this, that involve statistics, analytics, QA, automation, end users’ feedback and other stuff.
You can skip all this and figure this out as a solo developer or QA tester. It’s real simple:
Everyone in LE knows crit and DoT doesn’t work together.
So, it doesn’t take much brain power to realize that testing this is pointless.
As for what happens if your scenario happens, standard bugfixing process. Someone reports it, you fix it, test it no longer does the bugged thing, then deploy to production. In this usecase, you wouldn’t even need to test any combinations, because your example is a passive that only affects one skill.
Not sure what is the sarcasm here, you’re clearly talking nonsense.
I even said that company CAN rely on players - if it’s in a beta build, or if the player is part of a tester community. Feel free to re-read my post here:
It’s probably for me because I’m the one who said it’s not players job to find these things, but it was in a context of "don’t guilt trip people as if they aren’t doing enough so the game is buggy because they aren’t reporting bugs, then I brought up really old bugs which still aren’t fixed and here we are.)
On the topic of players finding bugs, I think this wasn’t mentioned yet…
If you report something, you receive no feedback, you can see no bug tracker that displays your bug’s status, and the bug is still not fixed after several patch releases, why would you report new bugs? It feels like a waste of your time to do so.
Same. You put up all the effort into providing screenshots, explaining how and where it bugs out, you post it in the format they specified, and nothing. It’s a waiting game from then on.
Things like this started happening when players started viewing games as projects instead of products. Imagine buying something that’s to fulfill certain task, and you find out throughout using it that it glitches and makes things difficult in the thing it’s supposed to be good at. But it’s besides the point.
Hey look, something we all agree on! EHG needs better communication about bug reporting, I even said so much earlier in this thread. We have no feedback on our feedback. Even a simple “thank you for your report. We’ll look into this.” would go a long way to making bug reports feel heard.
It’s not necessarily a bad thing. Thanks to early access titles and players as testers we got some really great games and experiences too. It just needs to be done decently.
I’m sure many players would have no problem being testers, especially in this game where testing out different builds is one of the main points of the game. But it needs a basis. And lots of what we discussed here can be free AND automatic.
Invulnerability phases in boss fights do have a reason: If the fight takes (say) three minutes for a char doing 20k DPS, it will be over in three seconds for a char doing 1 M+ DPS. That is, if one assumes a linear boss health bar. The 1 Mil char won’t see much of the bosses offensive abilities in the three seconds. Thus, he can further optimize his offensive and farm the boss without any effort.
Early solutions had plain invulnerability phases for bosses, which were unsatisfactory because there was seemingly no progress during these phases other than time passing towards the next damage phase - which can’t be visualized well.
I think the current solution of this problem is quite smart in LE. In the linear phases (red bar) you can see how fast you would have finished without a non-linear phase. In the non-linear phase (blue bar) the damage you deal is decreased heavily but it’s still noticeably faster if you have higher damage; additionally there is a damage-independent part for which boss ward loss increases over time. Together that gives a minimum time you have to be in the boss fight even if you have ultra-high damage, so the boss can actually do his things as well. Additionally, it’s also possible now to adjust for a maximum time in the boss fight if you have a halfway decent build without changing time for the 1 Mil char too much.
Yeah, those that want to. Look at baldurs gate 3. I bought it EA, had fun doing it.
My grief was using the “people don’t report bugs that’s why there’s still bugs” which is incorrect.
And if we’re being blunt. Frankly. In any way you take it. It’s literally not players job to fix things. It’s theirs to play. But I can understand if someone wants to do it to feel like they’re contributing to the game which in this case aren’t even thanked for.
State space complexity is quite a bit higher than 3, but you are of course correct, using the 20k combinations is unreasonable - I was mentally still stuck in a discussion about balance, sorry.
But it is not even necessary to test all reasonable combinations, if all those combinations can usually be expected to lead to the same result. Test smarter, not more.
This can be done in a reasonable time, and it can be repeated in case of changes. That does not mean that there could not be some weird other interaction that is potentially bugged and slip through. For example, in bug reports, I just found out why one player needs 186 attributes rather than 180 for his red ring - because one passive node of added intelligence appears not to be counted towards the attribute total.
Do we know if all melee attacks really apply 10 stacks of Flame Burst from Holy Aura? Or 6 in case of Warpath? It’s unreasonable to test it with every other skill - just take one melee, one throwing, and one spell skill.
EHG seems to lack good testing procedures - that’s my opinion as an external observer of their output. I think they really need to up their QA. Better procedures, better planning, better testing environment, better documentation.
If you have a clearly formulated expectation of what specific radius you should have in your test scenario, then yes. If the test scenario was just bigger == seems to be alright, then no.
