I just want to comment that this statement is very wrong. Economy had first emerged from the prehistoric time when man first trade with bartering. Economy doesn’t start when Google created search engine or Amazon created centralized online market. Closest thing IRL to Bazaar is neighbourhood flea market that you stumbled upon.
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Bartering requires two or more participants to make an exchange (does not have to be equal value). Without and I quote from Wealth of Nations. “No exchange can, in this case, be made between them, when parties do not agree."
Sure, and I think the current proposed Bazaar bazaar fit that requirement
I was attempting to support your position with a more relevant example. To one person money is everything, to others without the concept of money its worthless. Thus the barter, item for item exchange that places the value determination based on choosing to make that exchange.
An excellent example of this is PoE’s new expedition system that has three variants of the theme. The best one for LE’s case is Tujen, the Haggler, is open to negotiating but has a short temper.
Got it. I was confused by your previous reply. From your quote, problem with LE currently is no one need the money.
Yeah I got plenty, but not enough. I am in the middle of completely redoing my stash setup and its a bleed eye sore… I need a bazaar to get rid of stuffs!
Completely disagree
As of right now I am approaching lvl 100 and have not dropped a “common” tier unique that I’ve been searching for since my earliest lvls
I keep 1 copy of every unique item I find and this unique item can be dropped anywhere
Since LE removed unique gamble the only way to farm it is to try and do unique echos
So I am heading towards lvl 100 and still have not dropped this unique item
But that’s not all, I am actually hunting multiple unique items and none of them have dropped
I only have like 1 character I spent time on and my current playtime is over 60 hours
This forced SSF is horrible in its current state
Also exalted items are rare, double exalted is even more rare
IDK if triple exalted exists but my point is that these items are insanity tier rare
So if you find one that you dont need for your build, its essentially worthless regardless of how rare it is
If trade existed people could offer to trade items and get access to things that they will most likely never drop
Trade makes the game more fun and multiplayer is just a great addition to this game
Compare ARPG’s where trade is non-existent like GD (you can edit your character file)
to games like POE where trade is huge
Trade is an integral part of ARPG’s and giving value to rare items
If you dont give value to rare items and on top of that there’s no smart loot, people will get bored farming for items that never drop
Just because you can enjoy playing in this item starved system doesn’t mean everyone will
And just because you might get what you’re looking for after hundreds of hours of grinding, does not mean you will want to do that with each “season”
LE has already stated they will be doing “leagues” or “seasons” which include economy resets
So if currently you require HUNDREDS of hours to farm specific gear, then that means you’ll need to do that each and every time
From games like Escape From Tarkov where your character gets reset, I can tell you first hand that most people hate re-grinding all their stats and hideout and lvls etc
Standard in this game will be like Standard in POE
None will care about that league and most people will be playing the temporary leagues or seasons
Trade is good for the game
Trade is needed in this game
2 Likes
I agree that it must be able to farm a particular unique item in some way. I can also understand that trade is a means of alleviating the current situation. However, it cannot be ignored that the value of other exalted items plummets due to trade.
I mean, we can nitpick terms now, sure.
I’ll retract the term “economy”, because it is too broad, and instead describe it as not being an economy with any kind of significant impact on drop rates and player behaviour - because it is neither predictable nor abusable in any way.
Non-searchable, non-refreshable random player shops effectively do not constitute a plannable cycle of supply/demand interaction, hence it does not constitute what the vast majority means when they speak of the “economy” in a game with trade. It is a form of trade, but has barely any economic effect in this form - you’re unlikely to suddenly want to optimize your gold farm in order to afford something on a player shop, for instance.
I think it’s all about perspective. Why must the expectation for a season be to obtain “everything” or the best gear? In PoE for instance, this isn’t even realistically possible, even with Trade. And as I described above in an earlier post, while Trade does enable convenient access to certain items, Crafting fulfills more than part of that in LE as the gateway to enabling baseline viability for all manners of builds.
Trade is not a great time saver in this respect, it just changes the way you think about loot and progression, and necessitates a shift in the itemization design.
By all means, do look at PoE - the existence of Trade there by no means implies that changing your build up and simply going for something is easier. It simply means you need to convert everything you obtain into value, and adjust your gameplay strategy if you have certain goals. In LE, the focus is more on “just playing the game”, and working with what you get and the crafting system to progress.
The system is far from “item starved”, because no items are figuring as progression roadblocks until the very, very late end, when all you are after are Exalted items and specific endgame boss drops. And at that point, your build is completely viable and simply hunting for rare power upgrades. This is apples & oranges when comparing to a game like PoE, which is full of skills which are entirely dependent on specific items, and multiple mechanics designed to get an economic race going around them each season.
And which ARPGs are that?
Diablo 2 probably.
Which is nowhere near the most successful aRPG.
D2 - no AH, very cumbersome barter trade, no “proper” PvP outside of “dueling” (no balance, no mode, just a little side activity). No ranks.
D3 - Ah first, total catastrophe. then no trade at all. No Pvp at all.
PoE - no AH, barter trade which has become more convenient these days with 3rd party sites, but still a far cry from an AH. Some instanced PvP modes which nobody ever plays, because well ARPGs are not really what people flock to for PvP (time will tell if the new BR mode actually is successful). No ranks.
About a half a dozen smaller ARPGS which did fine financially without being market leaders, which never had any trade at all in some of them, yet alone an AH, and no PvP whatsoever (Titanquest, Grim Dawn, Wolcen, Torchlight and more).
That’s an AH xD and it’s not a 3rd party site. It’s GGG’s official trade site.
At this point you’re just trying to be toxic tbh.
PoE has never had an AH, and never will.
The trade site started out as a 3rd party site, and was only adopted by GGG with their own service fairly recently. In the early days there wasn’t even that.
Nah, you just continuo to gasslight. D2 is nowhere near the most successful or popular aRPG, almost nobody plays it (vanilla D2 that is).
D3 had an AH during its peaks and the issue was the irl money AH, which again you gasslit, saying
Without specifically poiting to the irl currency one.
And PoE had an AH FOR YEARS. That site is the official GGG AH.
You do not understand half the terms you use, you do not understand half the arguments you’re trying to make, and you continue to immediately switch into personal hostility.
So i’m pretty much done replying to you, i’m sorry to say.
You are being deliberetly disingenuous. That or completely clueless.
IMO, an AH would be an in-game thing that you interact with rather than a 1st/3rd party site that you need to tab out to use, if you choose to call that an AH, fair enough. Though I believe the console version have something in-game.
Just because someone disagrees with you doesn’t mean they’re being deliberately disingenuous or clueless. It doesn’t mean they’re stupid either.