botting is easy to stop he says as almost every online game has bots
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Almost every online game has trading with profit.
What a coincidence.
I can literally design a barter system that is super precise, fast, and eliminates profit before I even finish writing this post. Stop fooling yourself into thinking every Dev for every ARPG has thought through all the possibilities and they all just fail and resort to trading for profit. If they do that, its either a willful choice to accept bots/RMT, ignorance, or lack of choice due to a “management decision” they have no control over.
And yeah, as I finish typing this, I just thought up a straight-up barter system that would work, get you what you want (precisely), and have no way to bot, farm or RMT. So easy, even a caveman can do it! Hmm, I think that phrase is copyrighted…
If there will be no currency ingame with trading then users find some items which will serve as currency.
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No, I didn’t say no currency, I said no profit. No economy. So, there can’t be invented currency, because you can’t trade for profit.
edit: and I just fleshed out my instant-precise-barter idea while I sat here eating my pie…
There is a lot of speculation as to how we are planning on implementing an economy going on in this thread. I’m not sure that the conversation is overly constructive any more. We are well aware of the issues raised by everyone in this thread. Yes I’ve read it all. I would very strongly advise reeling in the assumptions.
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Thanks for the acknowledgment, Mike. It’s easy to understand why this would be a hard topic to engage in directly (for you/your team), but knowing that you have read it all is meaningful to me.
The extreme arrogance and ignorance required to think you have such an answer while holding such a fantastical philosophy is truly baffling. I can’t be bothered to humor you in this further because you know what they say about rolling around in the mud with pigs… Back to the ignore list with you.
/thread
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Wow, that’s embarrassing since I just posted it in its own thread…
Trade without restrictions is dangerous, Trade with restrictions borders on pointless - so just don’t even open that Pandora’s Box at all, if you ask me.
Exactly my opinion.
Obviously you cannot prevent drop-trading, which brings its own problems (see D2), but I think trading is what ultimately made PoE become the zoom-zoom shooter it is today. It should definitely be discouraged.
You think wrong.
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So no trading on a large scale between random people who have items they want to trade.
There’s also a reason why humanity only resorts to bartering when currency isn’t available.
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There have been some interesting ideas in this thread, but it’s been derailing into too many hypotheticals and speculation over the last 50 or so replies.
I’d say we can pack it in for now.
And @Albinosaurus, you need to stop getting so agitated when people disagree with your “full anarcho-capitalism in ARPGs or i’m gone” stance. I respect your views, and I can see what you want, but we’ve discussed it at length, and I’m not the only one who thinks you may be expecting the wrong things from LE. And there is room for a very diverse field of opinions on this subject without either side having the argumentative authority.
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As of now, I still dont see what we would be trading with. Gold? Items? Shards?
I guess next patch gets delayed then? You propably have lost days of development time 
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When it comes to trade, if you have a system that doesn’t allow for people to get the items they want or sell items for something of value, it’s a failed system. There’s just no getting around that. Especially with a certain troll’s ideas of “no economy/profit,” this is doubly true.
There may be other systems that can work better than an AH, but I haven’t seen a game do it yet, so history is the authority there.
Don’t misrepresent my stance. It isn’t anarcho-capitalism–that would be something more like a raw barter system that PoE set out to be. I consider that a failed system for a number of reasons and have for many years. The “I’m gone and will review dunk the game” is only if they choose one of the many obviously terrible trade systems–not merely a suboptimal one. Barter-only or bid-only would be such a system (shit trade ideas). A player market with some controls aimed at keeping botters under control would not.
While i dont really have anything against a well made trading system, i dont really see the point of it as of now. I can only speak for myself, but so far i never felt the need to trade anything in order to progress. If no drastic changes happen to how and what loot is dropping, i think alot of people will be just fine without feeling the need engage trading.
I also do hope that the loot system in future versions will keep these properties, so that people will never feel “forced” to trade in order to progress. Trading should only be an option for people that enjoy doing it and never a requirement in order to progress - or greatly speed up the progression of - the game.
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Well, this was discussed at length earlier in the thread, but the tl;dr of my position on it was that loot in the game’s current form doesn’t warrant trade, but is also boring. I want a lot more variety of loot and a good trade system to support it, but not fall into the D3 fallacy of thinking you have to nerf drop rates to “balance” it. Trade will self-balance as long as you have enough stuff that players consider worth trading.
This. The extreme SSF nature of the game and how people are setting up loot filters (extremely tightly filtered to only the build being played) makes me uncomfortable. But I’ve tried not to comment too much about this and (fingers-crossed) hope that it is this way primarily because MP and trade hasnt been introduced yet. And not that the current metagame is the intended foundation for LE.
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