It probably does… sure. I am wondering if it needs a rework rather than nerf though… same end result.?
They will have to address nearly every reasonable build in the game and maybe destroy lot of things if they really want to bring things to this level.
Bringing a lot of rage in tandem with this.
Specially if they don’t add anything really interesting to compete with monoliths.
And if we enter this path I’ll probably be one leaving the game seen how they want to handle things people “Think” are “OP”.
But while we are all in the field of speculation, I can only hope one day and future patches after 1.0 they focus more in content and balance for veterans.
Id rather it get fixed sooner rather than wait for another rework to be perfectly honest, if we go into 1.0 with stunlocking how it is, its gonna suck a lot
(and like, if you want the obvious solution to this, you give whatever enemies you dont want ot be stunlocked, x amount of time after a stun ends where they cant be stunned again with hard cc. It’s not really that complicated to solve this, it’s been solved in basically every single arpg ever because perma cc has always been a terrible thing)
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I don’t know if they necessarily want to bring builds down to 300 as much as they want to bring builds up to 300. But at some point they’d probably have to deal with the outliers.
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So to summize this thread, it goes something like:
“Build gets arbitrarily punished for pushing too high, while the real issue goes uncorrected.”
Did I miss anything?
5 Likes
So I googled for videos of people doing 5k+ corruption and haven’t found any as well. So this is either not happening at all or none comes up with a “Oh look my build is doing xyz corruption with a broken mechanic!”.
Since when is time time considered if something is overpowered? This build is in spheres noone else reached at this patch (at least I can’t find evedince for it). So it’s over powering everything else. There was once a slow but unkillable Sentinel build… guess what it got nerfed an was killable because it was OP for beeing unkillable.
I don’t talk only about the shade part of the video but if those monolith stages were on 6k corruption as well there is a far bigger issue with the build then stunlocking an enemy that is most likely pushable forever to unlimited levels of corruption.
That’s for sure and I agree on it but I don#t know how much of this time was “real gameplay” and how much of it was exploiting a broken mechanic. If there was legit gameplay and no usage of stunlocks up to 6k I’m the first to applaud. If 99% of the gameplay consists of beeing in goodmode because everything else can’t do anything then I’m not impressed and move on.
he said EHG took away beauty and fun. To me this instantly has all the checkboxes of “They removed my OP stuff wahhh!”. because people who dislike exploitable or buged or simply to effective stuff was put in line. The whole discussion with Bhuldar’s Wrath was alnog the same lkines after the nerfs… removed fun.
To me games are fun that make it possible to everyone to make a good build with most skills and build ups, give or take because perfect balance isn’t achiveable most likely. I’ll stand corrected if many other 6k builds see the light of day across all masteries and it’s a possibility for everyone to achive this.
That’s what I say for a long time but I don’t get an answer from the devs. I have no idea what they are up to and if 6k corruption that llooks stupid is the goal, and you need to put 700h in each cycle, or if 300 corruption is the goal or 1k or 3k. The balance of the game is all over the place and they want to relewase the game this year and I can’t tell what they aim for after beeing arround for years.
They take the Blizzard approach as it seems. They nerfed all options people had fun with that were able to pull higher numbers. Then again “fun” is very subjective and most “fun” things were stupid OP but the nerfs have been to much because they push the game more and more into mediocrity.
If you make a beauty of stun build that should stun the world in theory it’s a real feelsbadman moment when you are unable to stun the enemies you need to stun the most. This isn’t as easy as you make it up because this is an onging problem since CC was introduced in games.
Sums it up pretty well but I don’t think any kind of punishment was intended. I think if this matter was adresseed directly to the devs, aka using discord, things can change in a positive way.
A “I move on because my build was nerfed!” thread isn’t that new. It stays on the clean side that’s a nice fresh take on such discussions but as it was deemed an easy fix I’m suprised to not see any feedback on how EHG could make things better for users of said mechanic that is reasonable.
This just tells me you really arent understanding the issue, or you don’t want a game that requires skill lmao
Tbh as someone who hates getting stunned in arpgs, I think its an outdated concept.
they should remove it from monsters and players.
Getting stunned means “oh sorry you got unlucky on the dice roll for the 11% stun hit and died to the big attack” or it means getting stupid filler stats to counter it like stun immunity from an ability somewhere or what have you. I understand needing stat checks, but ones that remove player agency are really dumb.
And when you can stun monsters it becomes a shitty binary mechanic of “I perma stunned it because I invested all my resources into stunning now im immortal” or its “well its too hard to stun anything so stun affixes clog the pool for no reason hehe”
Ideally snapfreeze is the answer, a long cooldown “i dont want this to happen” button.
However… if you have ever fought a boss and used non cheese snapfreeze for that reason, just like players, bosses will just continue to do whatever they were trying to do, because getting stunned out of a mid action move does not put it on CD(Good for the player, bad for monsters)
I just have not seen any game do stun/interrupt well other then Guild Wars, but thats because it has a heavy pvp focus and players and monsters in GW1 were equal.
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Agree generally with this. I think theres a place for stuff like timelock on low health, I don’t think anomaly timelock is good for the game though. It’s been massively underated since as long as i can remember, and I think I was the only person even runnign it over buffs before 0.9 that much. All it functions as is ‘when you can pop this, you render x moments of gameplay obsolete’. It is incredibly boring, but it is incredibly powerful.
Specifically for timelock, if it slowed down enemies movespeed and attack/cast speed/cdr massively while they’re in the area, that would be cool. Timelock as it is is a terrible design for the game, of course you could have it without a stun attatched and just ‘when they come back they arent stunned’ but that would suck cus you’d just get insta gibbed lmao.
So yeah, I agree generally, I think theres stuff like cheat death style mechanics where its fine, but giving the player agency on when to stun an enemy is meh. I’ll always look at how I can abuse it, because it’s universally strong, but it isn’t good for the game.
And this is without using it with widescreen. Now that would be incredibly broken.
The odd thing is that devs, almost universally, recognize the OP nature of stun/stun lock, and (normally) include diminishing returns, windows of stun immunity or massively reduced stun chance on Boss NPCs or other players.
Yet, none of them have thought “you know, this is a stupid mechanic that is OP, let’s just not have it in our game”.
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Yeah I can usually think of ideas for why things i personally dont liek in a game, are in a game, but stun is one im always like ‘okay on a very basic level i can understand the appeal, becuase in a turn based game stun is really interesting’. But for real time games it’s just like, slows etc… are way more interesting?
In pvp stuff I think stuns are good, but thats like Dice brought up, its a level playing field. I’d definitely be curious to know the LE devs thoughts on stun, not in a like ‘we;re outraged remove this grrr’ way, but just a ‘whats the intention behind stuns?’. That way we could be better informed about where like, a line on it is.
So to summize this thread, it goes something like:
“Build gets arbitrarily punished for pushing too high, while the real issue goes uncorrected.”
Did I miss anything?
Yes, this is an accurate summary.
They’ve ignored my ideas/suggestions on discord for the longest time. This was no exception. I told them and all the Crab Bucket Andys repeatedly, “hey, my build is not so OP, why don’t you gear a mana sorc and run 1000-1500 corruption yourself? see how supposedly-easy it is.”. But no, everyone simply assumes 6k corruption means my build must have been completely-busted-OP.
Look at the combat I show in my videos. Does that look like it’s my build that is OP? Or that I’ve played it for so long that my autopilot is making it LOOK like it’s good? Notice how much active play/split-second dodging/reaction I do - maybe it’s not only the BUILD that made this possible, but the person behind the controls?
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Yeah gonna have to second samjoko here. The level of play they’re showing in these videos is at the highest level I’ve seen, only really seen lizard do similar with his biggest arena pushes. For monolith pushing, this is easily the best we’ve had video of, by a very high degree. Theres some absolutely cracked jukes and dodges done in a split second that I’d not really considered being feasible lmao.
Theres straight up a part where they step slightly to the side, juke out a melee auto attack, and have clicked back to where they were halfway into the auto attack animation, while dealing with everything else on teh screen. It just speaks to a lot of time put into mastering the basics of the game. This isn’t someone figuring out some theorycrafted build that abuses the mechanics to simplify stuff, this is just a very good representation of the type of thing a lot of us want to see in the game (albeit with maybe too much stunning, as discussed :D)
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Last time I asked a dev something on Discord it took them 2 hours to react. I don’t know what the problem is right now or if they simply have more pressing matters at hand at this time but this isn’t their normal behaviour 
.
There are a lot of skilled players out there who never managed to get to this levels. I know them at least from their names for some time and I somehow doubt this is a skill issue because if so a lot of people would be in the 4k-6k ranges by now and would brag about it.
To me? Yes. I think stunlock is OP. Soooo what?
Can’t tell. What I can say is you played well.
So I get this right: You took you leave some posts ago and we argue about if Stunlocking is OP (what it is from my point of view) and if EHG balnces the game in questionable way (Duh? Yeah they do)?
If so a TLDR: Stunlocks are OP and I think EHG could’ve handled a ton of things they balanced/fixed/nerfed in a much better way.
Name one ARPG where you are able to do this that isn’t swinging the nerf bat call a “bugfix” or change interactions that remove such options. Said options spiral out of control that’s why all games are rather tame about real options or they go don the powercreep drain. Options in an arpg are kind of an illusion because there is always a best thing you can do or a mechanic to exploit (when I say exploit I mean it in the best possible way because exploiting game systems is fun) or something works different like the devs wanted it to be or is buged.
But to come to an end on this topic, at least for me. Stunlocks are OP no matter how you look at it . On the other hand I don’t give a rats ass if such a build exists because I’ll never touch it and I don’t play with people who do so because the players I play with like different things.
What I realy like to see is EHG getting back in shape and doing a good job but that’s another topic.
Absolutely 100% in your camp about this mechanic in arpg games. Being prevented from interacting with an active game situation due to stun (and similar mechanics) is by far my most irritating experience. I find it so bad that I will sacrifice virtually every other aspect of a build to prevent my char from being subject to this because it totally ruins my playstyle.
The only time I have ever really rage quit playing a game is when this mechanic keeps preventing me from progressing. I see upgrading defences like resistances, armour, health, dodge etc. all as normal challenges, but holy hell, I hate having to build around being stunlocked.
By contrast, I have no problem losing a turn to stun etc. in turn based games - there is just something that clicks over when I am playing actively and anything that stops me from interacting drives me up the proverbial wall.
Indeed it is, and Im on the side of the more the better about power, but instead of going around&around the same theme, Ill stick to this part , Devs here are extremely caution concerning the power of builds, power of exalted itens, power of uniques, they risk taking away the fun of the game for veteran players. Just like you said, pushing the game to mediocrity. Its nothing different from mediocre when beauty and cool intereactions / mechanics the players discover are thrown away the way they are handling things.
No offense dude, but I have literally no idea what you’re trying to say in this thread. What we’;ve all been saying is ‘Stunlocking is OP, that should be whats nerfed, not the stuff that wasnt as OP.’
What you seem to be saying is simultaneously ‘Stunlocking is fun actually, if I press a stun button, the thing should get stunned’ and ‘Stunlocking is OP, and im going to pretend you’re arguing that its fine’
Im very confused.
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Yeah, sometimes things get a teensy smidge lost in translation.
I understand that people like OP stunlock builds. Stunlocks are OP. EHG goes strange ways in balancing/nerfing/fixing stuff. I see no other builds in that corruption ranges so the build is overperforming. Yes you are an above average player and I’ve taken this into account as well, still your whole setup makes the game a joke what is most likely not intended.
Hope this delivered my opinion on the topic and is followable.
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