Thank you for the memories

[TheLightningYu]

@Erasculio

I understand your point, but at the same time, that’s the reality: today, people get to choose between playing the current Path of Exile or the current Last Epoch. It doesn’t really matter to them that PoE has been released more than ten years ago; what matters is the state the game is currently in.

@DJSamhein

However, as Erasculio pointed out, for gamers what matters is how the game is right now. And right now, when you play LE you have less content to keep you engaged in the game than PoE does.

I understand that, but for me personally this is the point where it begs the question if we should take such people serious or if we should be an advocate to tell this people to be more patient and consider context.

Like Humanity always invented stuff where they can reduce the amount of work and time needed for stuff, but it should be in the basic principle and mere logic that you only can save up so much time until it reaches a limit. I mean if i go out and i cut a tree down, today it might be faster than 500 years ago because we can use a Chainsaw and aren’t obligated to an axe, BUT it still will take quite a time. If you are more knowledged in cutting trees it might go even faster, but still require a minimum amount of work.

But in case of Videogames we’ve the bad habit to expect that a game which took a few years to finalize that having at release the same amount of content compared to a game which also took a few years for some pretty basic basegame but additonal 10 years of time on a finished product to expand and squeeze any ounce of content in it.

That’s not just not logical… i’d even go as far (and sorry for the harsher tone) and argue it’s even childhish/immature behaviour… due it reminds me at childs who mournes at their mom why the food taking so long, just because they got it faster when they were at mcdonalds, which just showcase (for obvious reason because it’s a child) that they don’t know what effort it can take to cook a proper meal. It’s only when they themself get adult and ever have had to cook for themself that they realize there is more too it. If you experience stuff yourself it can make you more humble…

That’s also why i also find there is a misconception when people tell others with “try do it yourself”. That’s not to dismiss actual, constructive criticism, it’s because some people are so snobby and far out of reality, that they really should try it once for themself to get a little check and become more humble about it. It’s fair to criticsize stuff, but there shuold be some sort of reason behind it.

And while Programming / Coding is all about finding solution for problems which arise, that doesn’t mean you can snap and do a magic trick.

@DJSamhein

Endgame is simply mechanics to keep you busy for a long time when you finish with the static content (in this case, the campaign).

Again, you will find quite a huge amount of people who 'll disagree with it, especially on Grim Dawn, because for this people doing the campaign over and over again and starting over a new character/build is part of the endgame. And i can kinda see it because not every game is able to encourage you to start over and over again with new builds… not even all ARPG’S are able to pull that off. Which is why i mentioned it’s so super subjective what people expect from endgame…

I mean i personally are a bit different to this, because i personally aren’t the biggest campaign players either… esp. in ARPG’S. I always prefer to have an option to skip campaign so i can focusing in running freely/sandboxy around and grind stuff, or engage with endgame mechancis (tho i do like starting over with new characters, but as long as itemization is done well… i really don’t like Smartloot because of that, due it rarely gives items which you might need for other classes and builds and as such don’t encourage try another build). But i can see why some people do tho.

[DJSamhein]

@TheLightningYu

I understand that, but for me personally this is the point where it begs the question if we should take such people serious or if we should be an advocate to tell this people to be more patient and consider context.

I wasn’t talking about people’s expectations. I was simply saying that the average player will look at PoE and LE and right now PoE has a lot more stuff to do. So it’s natural that the average player will gravitate towards PoE and not LE simply for that reason.

By making the example by exaggeration: imagine that a new ARPG comes along and it’s very exciting, has amazing combat and build variety, but only has 1 act in the campaign and nothing else. You will have fun with it for a while, but no matter how good you’ll spend time on games that keep you occupied for longer while you wait for that game to flesh out.

The same thing happens with LE (and also to D4): yes, PoE had 10 years to build up their endgame, but when you’re deciding what to play, PoE is more appealing. Much like I expect PoE will stay more appealing than PoE2 because of that.

It was a bit convoluted, but my main point is: it’s not fair to compare both games when you’re giving feedback, but it’s totally fair to compare them when you’re deciding what to play.

@TheLightningYu

Again, you will find quite a huge amount of people who 'll disagree with it, especially on Grim Dawn, because for this people doing the campaign over and over again and starting over a new character/build is part of the endgame. And i can kinda see it because not every game is able to encourage you to start over and over again with new builds… not even all ARPG’S are able to pull that off. Which is why i mentioned it’s so super subjective what people expect from endgame…

Well, I personally don’t consider GD campaign in all difficulties as endgame. GD endgame would be dungeons, crucible, shattered realms, farming totems/bosses/nemesis/MI/superbosses. Much like D2’s endgame was farming bosses/ubers.

My distinction for endgame is when you finally have a choice and are not “on rails”, which you are for the whole campaign (even if you can skip parts of it). You make the same path every time, same quests, etc. Once you’re done with campaign, then you’re free to pursuit whatever you feel like, including going back to campaign map to farm stuff.

[sandryrandry]

If this was like D4 where leveling ground to a halt at 50 when your character was still weak as hell and needed another 50 levels to even be half decent, then I could see where you’re coming from. But truthfully, any and all endgame LE characters are ready to handle all the content in the game between like 70 and 80, depending on the specific build. You don’t need to hit 100 in LE to play half the content, like you do in D4. I’m a person who likes maxxing a character before I start crafting their final build, like in D3, but after a couple hours of LE endgame you quickly come to notice that in the process of collecting normal leveling upgrades for your character, they’re actully already strong as hell and don’t need to hit 100. That is the whole point. They don’t want people to feel the need to get to 100 and progress some bonus post 100 system, the intention is for you to expend effort in crafting good gear, making smart skill investments, and watching it pay off without you having to go through your obligatory “run around in circles for 5 hour until my number stops going up” that you see in other games. As someone else stated on here, if the content is good, level 100 will come naturally, that’s why it’s so important that they’re focusing on adding endgame content with these next few cycles.