Yes, you are correct. I was under the impression it didn’t, but I was wrong.
You’d need hundreds of hours for it to drop. In the same timeframe, one will also drop to one of the thousands of MG players. Or more, depending on how many players are in MG. If you have a bigger playerbase, you’ll get more outlier results available. Which is how trade works.
Similar to getting a 2LP red ring. You’d need hundreds of hours to get it in CoF. And yet there are 2LP red rings available in MG. Very few and sold for cap, but they’re there.
What do you mean? There are plenty of 2xT7 items in MG. You just don’t have an easy way to find them.
If you need hundreds of hours for one to reliably drop, they’re equally a unicorn. Most players won’t play hundreds of hours in a season. Which means most players also won’t see one, even in CoF.
PoE has the same issue. Is it broken?
PoE doesn’t have minimum pricing either.
It’s not a relevant cost, though. Only at the very start. Once you’re farming 300c+, favour costs for listing or even re-listing are totally irrelevant.
In fact, you have the opposite problem, which is what to do with all the excess favour which you can’t possibly use, other than for useless gambling.
Yes, to one of thousands while you personally get it.
Now you compete with all those thousands to acquire it.
Demand is higher then that though hence the access-rate is lower then in CoF.
That’s a given. The market is not a miracle machine, but people not using a market or not understanding one always seem to think it’s this mystical place where stuff pops up miraculously and nobody picks it up and it just sits there solely for you…
Yeah, and how do you get that cap? The vast majority of people playing for hundreds of hours don’t reach it even when trading. The large bulk of items goes for ~50k, which also takes a substantial amount of time to list and sort.
It’s unreasonable to take the extreme outliers of the already outliers (farming for hundreds of hours in itself is that) as the norm.
They are nigh non-existent. The majority of items in MG is 1 T7 and with 1T7 + 1T6 few and far between.
The few 2T7 are awful combinations and often with 0 FP on top since they’re already failed crafts.
If you need thousands for MG to even see one once then they’re kinda a unicorn with a horn on top of the horn now… aren’t they?
Different premise as there’s a distinct middle-class of items. Common uniques don’t fall into that category.
Different system, different needs.
Variance in PoE is ridiculously higher comparatively to LE, hence the spread for non-unique items is accordingly higher and this dilutes the pool.
Is it not?
Mhmmm…
I see!
So re-listing my 4700 items clearly is not ‘relevant’ cost-wise! It would only cost me a mil if all of those were idols… which wouldn’t really be relevant… but they’re not only idols now, are they? The spread is roughly 40% items actually, which cost 1k+, and hence re-listing suddenly is 3+ mil favor for that alone.
Now do it a few times as prices progress and change, especially with low turnover-rate items to stay at the lower end of the price-range and actually cause people to buy it rather then rotting forever.
Welcome to 100+mil easily in a month.
Is that ‘relevant’ now or not?
Auxiliary systems were always needed and never supplied.
You mean unlike PoE players which almost all get thousands of divines to buy those top-tier Original Sins?
In any trade economy, the really top tier items are sold for obscene amounts and only the 1% of the 1% of the 1% will be able to afford them. Same in LE as in PoE.
The point was that if you play for hundreds of hours (which is already an outlier) you have a chance at a 2LP red ring with CoF. In those same hundreds of hours, you have a chance at a 2LP red ring with MG because someone else farmed it for you.
It’s only in the extreme outliers that the differences between MG and CoF get closer together, though. At the very start, MG can gear up more easily, especially if you need specific uniques in your build, which, let’s face it, almost every build does these days.
You made me go online and check. I logged to my CoF character, checked gloves with 20FP+, ordered from most expensive. In the first 3 pages I immediately found 7.
Didn’t bother searching more.
They’re the same thing. Only a very small fraction of the playerbase will play that much in a season. And those players will usually reach gold cap anyway because they know how the game works and how to best profit from it. So they can buy the top tier item if they’re MG in that time. Because they’re only competing with the rest of the 0.1% of players that are like them.
If you have 4700 items for sale, you obviously won’t be re-listing them all, since that alone would take forever to do. Even at a minute per re-listing it would take you over 78h non-stop to relist them all.
Even if you were to make it 20s per item, that’s over 24h.
So, for any practical use of MG, even with the issue of no listing limit, favour is irrelevant. You create more favour farming for items than you get items worth selling.
One is plain and simple superior to the other, and MG is not it, wouldn’t even be it when all the issues are fixed and it’s working perfectly without flaws.
The fundamental system of CoF is faulty simply, with the severalfold multiplication of drops, it’s vastly beyond any reasonable metric for exalteds… hence base drop items. Specifics like uniques have issues definitely for acquisition, but for the stuff which is already underlying RNG to a large degree anyway it’s just absolutely broken.
Not a good point to make either… because as mentioned, uniques for CoF are a problem, which is the target farming aspect which is not fully set up.
EHG did the worst possible solution by simply ramping up drop-rate for higher quality items, and that’s it.
Once more… don’t say ‘because of this faulty system on one side the other is superior!’… that’s not how it goes. Fix the faults and argue from the position of the potential perfect solution already being implemented.
It’s obvious that Uniques need work for CoF, always was the case.
Because you get piss-easy access to all uniques, which is also broken, in the other direction.
It shouldn’t be the case.
Rarity of uniques should matter. It being a boss unique shouls matter.
You found 7 pieces of 3T7 items in 3 pages?
I searched for 2 hours the last time overall and found ‘0’.
Sorry to say… but I’m really not trusting that result there.
Yes, and one side can hence get it and the other can’t.
Disaprity.
That’s the damn fucking topic always… you can’t just ignore it endlessly! But you do and throw random shit arguments around which make no sense.
So let me dumb it down to a either/or answer:
In which faction does take it commonly longer to acquire a 3T7 item: MG or CoF?
Even mentioning that it’s ‘only’ supposed to take a full minute is showcasing how awfully clunky that system is.
You know how re-listing for prices should work? You see the item listed from you… you click into the price-tag and change that. The end.
And since you got a list - which you’re supposed to be able to sort - you should be able to do that in bulk, hence 20-30 items at once, in 1-2 minutes. We can say 10 items per minute should be the minimum for quicker re-pricing in bulk.
That this is not the case is already showcasing a major issue.
I didn’t say that, though.
Endgame items require both uniques and exalteds. MG has a much easier time getting uniques, so they will likely need less slams. This is because they will immediately get the 2LP or the 3LP and they can start slamming at the top. Their bottleneck is exalteds.
CoF has a much easier time getting exalteds, but they have a much harder time getting the uniques. This means that they will start slamming with a 1LP unique because that is what dropped. And once a 2LP unique drops, they need to slam it again.
The bottleneck for each is in a different place, but the final result for a medium-tier unique (one where you can reasonably expect a 3LP but would be lucky to have a 4LP) ends up being similar for both.
And for those rare uniques where you’ll be slamming a 1LP, MG is actually ahead, since they only need a simple exalted item with that affix, whereas CoF will still need to grind for hours to get that 1LP drop.
Both systems have their issues. But it’s just as hard to get a BiS legendary with one as with the other. Because both have bottlenecks, just in different places.
2xT7. Which is what you were saying was extremely rare and there was barely any available at all.
Mind you, I only searched for those with 20FP+. There were more with lower than that and not all were 0FP. And some 0FP ones might be useful for you as well.
I wouldn’t know. Despite playing over 100h in the couple weeks before 1.3 and the 3 weeks following it, I haven’t had a single one drop.
So I would say that it takes commonly as long for both, since commonly no one will get one, other than a few very lucky people.
And given enough people in MG, it will even be shorter in MG.
Look at it this way. It doesn’t matter how many people play CoF. The odds of getting anything is always the same for you.
However, in MG, the more people play the more of that item will show up for trade. If only 1k people are playing MG, then it’s not likely to show up. If 100k people play MG, you can expect to see a few. If 100M people play MG, you can expect to see quite a lot of them.
Any trading system only works if there are enough people participating in it. Given enough people, you have better odds of finding anything than with CoF.
MG in LE is clearly balanced around having a large number of people playing (about 100k). When you have way less than that, it stops working properly.
Yes, but that is a different issue, though. We all know that MG UI is severely lacking in function and QoL.
Which need to be enforced to have a minimum price as the drop-rate of them is ridiculous community-wide but harsh personally as the amount needed to get a good result is bottlenecked by exalteds viable to slam onto em in MG.
Which is also a fault, but the other way around, since exalteds drop so much the right unique is a issue. You get loads and loads of high LP uniques… just not the one you personally need commonly.
Both sides need work in regards to evening this out so a reasonable result for both happens.
Exalteds are also a major bottleneck for CoF, but theirs is vastly lower since that is an aspect which is highly improved. Which makes it commonly harder to acquire a similar result through MG.
It gets ever worse the further along to end-game you get, it tips over really really quickly form ‘MG is superior’ to ‘CoF is superior’.
And the more have a demand for said item, the ratio doesn’t change.
There is a equilibrium point which happens when active players are there. That point gradually shifts towards the top-end without new characters/players, but it swiftly reaches a specific end-point where it tends to not move much.
Yes, but the chances of you getting “A” 3xT7 increase when there are lots of players in MG. Because 3XT7 become available on a more regular basis, so even if you’re competing with others, you still have a decent chance of getting one.
Given enough players you can even have one in a short period of time.
Whereas in CoF, this doesn’t change ever. CoF is balanced around what you drop only. It’s easier to balance into what you want.
MG is necessarily balanced around there being x number of players around trading. If you have less players then the system falls apart because nothing is available, too many and it also falls apart because everything is available.
If 1 person gets a 3T7 item and 100 want one and have the funds to buy it related to each 1 which gets one… how many are still available? Yes… -99, always, per item.
So if you got 1000 people getting one then the need is there for 100000 items at the time in demand. So it’s still a negative of 99%
It doesn’t change. If you got a million… a billion… a trillion players. The rate stays the same, your chance is always the exact same.
Edit:
The part about the balance for MG is that the system actually functions and has the supply/demand followed because of the law of large numbers. As otherwise the RNG is too high to cause a equilibrium to form.
It doesn’t for demand. It does for supply. As you pointed out in the edit, the law of large numbers means that the extremely rare outliers will be much more common the more players you have.
And there is also a lower threshold. If something has a 0.01% chance to drop and there are only 10 people playing MG, then there will be 0 items available.
This is actually very much showcased in PoE with the HC/SC markets. There are many things which aren’t available in the HC market (despite it being reasonably attainable in SC) simply because not enough people play it.
As for the other part, it’s actually not true either. If you have a number of players such that that item will drop once per season, then you have a much lower chance of getting it, since you might not even be online when it did.
But given enough people that it will drop once per hour, for example, even if you’re still competing 100k+ people, you will get more chances to try to get it before it’s sold.
The total amount of people that end up with that item is still the same percentage. But the odds of you personally getting it will increase the more players are selling it. Simply because you’ll have more chances of being the one that buys it, as opposed to only 1-2 chances or even none.
Careful you don’t hurt your back shifting those goal posts, they look heavy. You never mentioned profitable, you said they were “major”, as in “big players” in the genre, which they’re anything but. It’s almost like there are no major games that go full minimalist on the graphics in the past ~30 years. So maybe form isn’t as unimportant as you wish to imply.
Because that defeats the purpose of having trade/non-trade factions. If they want to be able to buy gear they can go MG, if they want to find their gear themselves they can go CoF. That is the premise.
It’s not. CoF/MG isn’t about whether you want to play with others or by yourself, it’s solely about whether you want to trade or find your own gear. I don’t get why people don’t seem to be able to get this relatively simple distinction. The only link CoF/MG have to SSF/offline is that MG wouldn’t work, that’s it. You can still party up while playing CoF or play solo while MG.
They are. CoF is for farming your items yourself, MG is for farming the AH.
Why? It’s a trade faction, it’s kinda baked into the name.
The devs know that if people have access to trade then the drop rates need to be reduced, we see this in PoE. But they know that there’s also a sizeable portion the the playerbase that doesn’t like trading & therefore doesn’t like having their drop rates reduced just because Jonny Tradelord does trade & uses it to gear up as fast as possible. So they created a way for those who like to trade to be able to with more appropriate drop rates & those who don’t like to trade to not have to suffer the sucky trade-balanced drop rates.
What you want to do is have people who like trading to be able to trade but also have less-nerfed drop rates.
Yes, that’s fair, it does suck that we can’t have nice things because of a small minority.
If it were that easy, they would, but it’s really not that easy.
I think this is the problem though, trade is such a powerful way to get gear it doesn’t need being made more powerful.
Yeah, we should have the option to just be lvl 100, with all the gear we want, that’d be better right? And if you don’t like it you could just not use that functionality or play ssf/offline.
It really does.
I will accept that MG doesn’t really have things to do with favour, nor is gold a good currency, the UI could be improved & the market doesn’t work if there isn’t a critical mass, but I disagree that trade should be the default & non-trade-enjoyers should be punished with worse drop rates (a la PoE).
No.
What was said was “I want to be able to trade but also have better loot drops as well”. And “I want to be able to sell my hard dropped gear for RL currency”.
Still no. If you have a desired average rate of gear acquisition in mind & then throw in thousands of others farming the items for you, do you not think that that might be a teensy smidge faster than farming the item yourself? Then perhaps, you might need to put some friction in place in trading, and possibly reduce the drop rates.
I eagerly await your first online/seasonal arpg. Give us a shout when its out? It shouldn’t take you too long, you’ve got all the planning & design work done.
Yes, that’s because CoF gets better drop rates & MG gets thousands of people doing the farming. CoF does quality, MG does quantity, though it doesn’t help when there aren’t enough people trading (which likely snowballs & acts to push people towards CoF).
Hyperbolic bullshit. Plainly said.
Have you tried playing online then? Might find there are more traders online than offline. Also, I have heard that trading is the only source of gold, mobs don’t drop any, nor do mono rewards, infact monos are empty of mobs, there’s only the boss that you have to run through to.
The ability to trade & there being lots of non-LP uniques for very cheap is a problem?
It’s like meta builds, nobody’s forced to play them & if they do feel like their super jank build is slower than the most bleeding edge meta build then they can just switch right? Balance is for pussies.
That was a metaphor btw.
I believe that is generally how trade works, yes. Rare shit is expensive, it’s called supply & demand.
Fixed that for you. See how that statement works just as well for CoF as it does for MG?
So rare stuffs are expensive?
So you don’t want 2xT7, you want the right t7s, well don’t worry, they’re not common for CoF either.
So we should be arguing as if MG had a critical mass of traders playing and and item you wanted was available? So gearing up would be way easier than in CoF.
It should, that’s fair, they’d probably have to expose the rarity/reroll chance of a unique to a player & have that as a requirement to buy it scaling with rank.
Well, if we’re arguing from the point of view of a fixed MG, CoF would take longer.
Yeah, the devs have said as much, I wouldn’t be surprised if that balancing point is very sensitive & can flip quite quickly.
Llama I feel like you are injecting a lot of unsaid statements into your responses due to your other ongoing arguments.
And my point is that they dont have to gate that so heavily. Completely removing the option for trading is a bad design choice. Its one of the main points of this thread. If you hate trading so much, then dont use it. If you think it should be SSF, then go SSF, its an option. If you want to only trade with friends, nothing is stopping you. This is a recommendation to unlock an option that a large chunk of the player base never engages with, and you have yet to explain why this would be a bad idea, except that you dont like trading. None of my other points or suggestions are detrimental to the existing CoF playstyle, and pose no threat to it.
Yes that is the current design, which I believe is a bad design that unnecessarily excludes core features from a large portion of the player base, at no benefit to anyone.
I am not asking for loot explosions or increased drop rates, or to reduce the drop rate for CoF. I made suggestions for improving the MG faction overall while still being separate from CoF. I’m not sure how you feel that this is harmful to anyone really.
It definitely isn’t when its removed from most of an already-small player base. You make it seem like the bazaar is just an instant full kit for anything with no effort involved, which makes me think that you’ve never really tried it.
Thats an interesting man of straw that you have created, im sure you’ll have fun playing with him. I never recommended any of that.
Please point out where I said that people that do not want to use the bazaar should have lower drop rates, or anywhere that I said that CoF rates should be negatively changed in any way. (Spoiler: I didn’t)
No one is removing the option for trading. They’re just making it so that if you trade, you don’t have the same drop rate as you do in CoF. Which is actually the opposite of that.
Trade always has to have their drop rates balanced around it. That’s a necessity. So if you simply opened up the chance for MG players to access the CoF drop rates, EHG would simply nerf everyone’s drop rate globally.
Which would mean you’d end up with players being able to trade and having the same drop rate as now, under the guise of “boosted drop rates”, because that is how EHG wants to balance the game, and players that didn’t want to trade would be left in the same spot as they do in PoE, which is up a shit creek.
That isn’t an option when the whole game is balanced around everyone having access to both trade and good drops.
What EHG tried to do with factions is make it so that if you want to trade you can get your endgame gear in X time.
And if you don’t want to trade, you can get your endgame gear in approximately the same time.
What you’re asking for is basically just trade with better drops, which is the same as power creep. And that’s not where EHG wants to balance things.
I honestly don’t understand why people just keep wanting both things. CoF is basically a challenge league. You have a big drawback (can’t trade), you get big bonus (boosted drops). If you no longer have the drawback, then you shouldn’t get the bonus either.
And pretty much the only reason why it’s factions and not an actual separate challenge league is simply so you can play with your MG friends.
Because if CoF was an actual separate league, no one would be asking for this. At most they’d just be asking for better drops.
Except they do, because they cause the game balance to change. Now the devs will balance drops and new stuff around players that can both trade and also have better drops. Players that don’t trade will have a harder time getting things from then on.
This isn’t an issue with trade itself. This is an issue with where the balance is being drawn based on the expected playerbase. And clearly MG is balanced around an expectation of more players than it has.
That can be adjusted without changing anything else.
Look at it this way:
If LE had 1 million players in MG, drop rates would have to be reduced a bit for balance.
If they had 100k players, balance would be where EHG wants it, or close to it (only they will know the real number, but around 100k feels right).
If they had 1k players, then drop rates would have to be increased.
In an extreme, if you had only 1 player in MG, drop rates would have to be adjusted to be similar to CoF’s.
This is so every player, whether they trade or not, has a similar chance to reach the endgame goals.
What LE needs, both for MG and CoF, is better target farming. Imprints were a good idea, but they need a starting point. It only works when you already have the item. It helps getting more of that item so you can improve it. It doesn’t help getting it in the first place.
Again, it comes down to balance. If MG gets better drop rates (assuming a healthy playerbase for it) and CoF doesn’t change, then the balance shifts to become harder to get items from then on. Which means that CoF immediately has worse drops.
If it’s just an adjustment for the lower amount of players in MG, at least until they can get more people trading, then it’s fine and doesn’t affect anything else.
So Llama doesn’t like this idea but has a lot of trouble expressing how it’s actually detrimental to anyone, gotcha. You have a lot of hypotheticals that you’re basing your arguments on, but it honestly seems like you’re opposing just for the sake of it at this point.
Pretty much. It’s not an easy idea to get across to someone that hasn’t been on the other end of it for years, like in PoE, where people that hated trade were either left with being forced to trade or suffer through abysmal drops.
EHG looked at that and tried to give people that don’t want to trade a way to have a gameplay experienced balanced closely (or tried to) to the one traders have.
Bottom line is that both factions need better target farming. Especially CoF. Getting that first Aaron’s Will drop or that Stealth boots is a pain and can take a really long time, because all CoF has is some way to minimize RNG a little, but it’s still RNG. You can take dozens of body armor prophecies and it still won’t drop.
Whereas MG can just work on gathering resources to buy the first one so they can imprint it. They have access to it much sooner.
Because in the end, the drop rates for either MG and CoF will always be separate and will always be what EHG wants the accessibility of items to be.
When factions were introduced, the global drop rate was reduced (30% I believe) to compensate for trading being in the game. Then CoF got bonuses on the premise that they couldn’t trade.
Those are supposed to offset the benefits you get from trade so that when you get to endgame both have a similar difficulty in getting the same final items (legendaries in this case).
Both factions have their issues, a lot of which are UI and QoL related, but that is their endgoal.
So just bumping MG drop rates without also bumping CoF drop rates will in effect hurt CoF players. Bumping both won’t do much to address the real issue either, which is simply target farming.
Because, in the end, drops are currently the way they are for both MG and CoF because that’s how EHG wants them. You can disagree with them, but they’re not that way by accident. They could just as easily adjust the global drop rate for MG and tweak the CoF rank values if they wanted players to get more/less items.
Personally, I think a simpler solution for target farming would be to allow you to “construct” your imprint. If you wanted a specific unique, you’d just select that unique and it would have better chances to drop. So if you selected a Kestrel body armor, you could expect to have one drop once an hour, since it’s a pretty common drop. If you selected a red ring, you could expect one to drop every 30 or 40 or 50h or however many they decide is good for balance.
But you wouldn’t need to have one drop first, which is a lot more penalizing for CoF players than for MG ones.
And the same thing for exalted gear. You could select what type of item, even what sub-type, and what affix(es) you want. Then it would give you slightly better chances of getting it.
That way everyone has access to their target farming, MG still has trade, CoF still has prophecies.
If 1 out of every 1000 people gets the item then the ratio is still the same.
That’s what a ratio is
That’s also factually wrong! You’re still in the same percentile of people owning the item. What you describe is an illusion without any further effort being taken. And the example doesn’t take those into account, taking ‘a step further’ is not included here and isn’t supposed to either.
The only thing changing is your success-rate per opportunity. Since the same ratio of items drop and the same ratio of people get em that means the thing rising here is solely the count. And that means the success per try reduces.
So if you have 1 try and 1000 people want to get that your chance is 0,1% chance to suceed with that single try.
If 100 tries happen and 100000 people want it then your chance is 0,001% per try.
That’s the value which changes, not your end-result.
Because that’s the implications of what you’re saying/asking for. I don’t think it’s too unreasonable to suggest that you’re asking for better loot while also being able to trade. Having things added/changed/whatever has repercussions, we’re just pointing these out to you.
Only if you like trade. If you don’t enjoy trade it’s a non-issue & not everyone who plays LE (or PoE) enjoys trading. It’s just that LE gives them an alternative option while PoE requires them to either suffer worse loot drops or engage in something they don’t enjoy.
This is quite a selfish argument. I don’t like a thing therefore the game must be changed to accommodate me & anyone who doesn’t like it can just not do it.
CoF is still not for SSF.
Apart from the people that don’t like trading. If trading were freely available to everyone, as it is in PoE, the drops would have to be reduced to take this into account, as they are if we assumed that CoF was the baseline drop rate. This would, like PoE, require people to trade to make up for the worse drop rates. So yes, by suggesting/requesting that trade be made baseline you are trying to make things worse for people who don’t like trade, whether they play with people or not.
Yes & no. I agree that MG is lacking, though part of that is due to the presumed lack of people playing it. What you’ve asked for is to make trade the baseline experience, because you feel it is it’s core functionality, as you’ve said & that requires lowered drop rates which, if CoF could trade, would have to be applied to CoF whether they used CoF or not.
If you aren’t asking for better loot, what would caravans give you? Xp? Some new currency? MTX? Or loot?
It has the potential to be & yes, I have tried it, I just have never been particularly good at it, in any game, to use it to get much currency.
No, that was rather the point. But if it were an option, you could just not use it, “problem solved”.
You didn’t, but only because you seem to not understand how drops need to be balanced around trade (spoiler, they do).
Because people want more stuff & push back against boundaries (which is generally agood thing).
Just because a person doesn’t like a thing doesn’t mean they disagree with it just for the sake of disagreeing. Why do you not appear to understand that not everyone enjoys trade with out them wanting to play solo?
It’s not, it’s the prevalent situation happening.
But does that mean we have to immediately argue based on it? Why not take stuff at face value and see where it goes?
First of all… necessity and simply having the ability to do something are 2 different things. If the necessity is there it’s bad. If the ability is there without necessity it’s good.
And yes, a small fraction of the playerbase enjoys trading because EHG managed to push the others away by now, majorly so. So obviously.
The original split was 50/50, that’s not even close to the case anymore, and it hurt the game ridiculously much. I would even argue that the chance for the ongoing issues with LE related to monetization wouldn’t be as severe if MG were in a good state from Day 1. Not that we now have a good state… but that’s my premise of a thought experiment there.
Yes, obviously?
But also not wrong?
If the necessity isn’t there but the ability exists then it’s not a net-negative. So OP gets a upside and you get no downside. Win-‘I don’t care’ situation hence. So overall positive.
In the current setup it very much is sadly.
LE has basically lost all community- and group-based stuff by now, which makes the existence of being a live-service game a very idiotic one. It enforces a community based aspect to warrant the downsides going along with it… but we’re not even remotely provided with them.
No guilds.
No hideouts.
No larger scale areas which enforce returning to while also seeing other people.
Significantly hindered group play mechanics.
Broken trading.
Nothing which would push the reasoning for having it a live-service game is currently implemented and if implemented then properly functioning in a good state.
So those having trade-phobia are well off! Great! Not.
Once more, there’s a difference between necessity and existence.
And the premise already breaks apart.
Who ever mentioned this? Freely available? What’s free in a system where access to usage is barred by usage of content? So one leads into the other. Adjust how much access you get based on alignment and you don’t have this issue.
It’s always the same argument and it’s always a faulty one. It’s not mandated as a guaranteed happening… it’s just what’s been showcased a lot. Alternative models work, anyone knowing market systems overall knows that… but you gotta know those models.
And plainly spoken EHG doesn’t even know which functioning model they wanna follow as they got no clue about how a market is even set up.
And that statement is outright idiotic.
‘By suggesting’… so… we cannot even have dialogue about it? Because the mere mention will endanger the situation of the people not wanting trade?
Plainly spoken… piss off. I don’t think you meant that as you wrote it, but if so… then it’s worthless to even talk about it with you. Just as a reminder that things come back as you yell them out. That part is something you should overthink again what it actually means.
Nah, MG works when 500 people are active in it. Not well… but it works at a fundamental level.
The vast majority of issues is the fundamental setup, in many many many many areas at once. We have double-dipping, we have lack of fluidity, we have lack of market equilibrium, we have limit-breaking of the market, we have a access restiction system which fails on both sides of the spectrum, both too early and too late access.
It’s one utter mess, easier to demolish fully and rework from the ground up plainly spoken. That bad.
Nope, that’s what you read, but not what was asked for fundamentally. It might be implied, but the idea is not fundamentally causing this.
Leave out the ‘because’ and the sentence becomes right again. It is in no relation to your former argument though, those things stand separate. They can connect, but don’t have to.
Also a false idea, this doesn’t uphold, it’s not universally true. It’s likely with many setups but not mandatory.
The caravans for example could be the primary influx of trading currency. You generate favor, favor is exchanged for using the caravan, the caravan becomes better with ranks, the better the caravan the more return you get. The majority of value from trading gets taxed (not the minority) to ensure the cycle has to repeate endlessly. We’re talking a 70%+ taxation rate here without anything extra.
So someone aligning with CoF would get only drop-based currency, which is scarce and hence allows barely any interaction. Also they wouldn’t get favor which would be the relevant resource to list and to use the caravan, so only buying is possible, to alleviate the shortcomings of the mechanic without a need to go out of your way. If you have a trade every 100 hours rather then having it as a ongoing thing then it’s not interfering with the premise of the improved loot quantity and quality.
On the other hand if favor is primarily used in CoF to cause the loot boost itself rather then being directly accessed by simply ‘existing’ we also wouldn’t have the issue with double-dipping when aligning with MG, as the alignment and hence the favor is the thriving factor here then, which means active engagement being a mandatory aspect to enforce the time investment. And time investment is returned by rewards, as it should be. Not ‘ongoing existence’ being returned with rewards.
And CoF doesn’t? If pushed to the extreme any system which provides rewards does have that.
It’s a nothing-burger argument.
Nah… in this case it’s your lack of ability to think up alternative possible solutions rather then it being a infallible base outcome.
It’s the most seen one, but not infallible.
Ok, then let me put it into perspective:
Not everyone likes to Delve in PoE, right? Actually few people do.
It exists, everyone has access to it… but it’s not mandatory.
So people hating Delve also don’t ask for it to be removed as a access… having for example ‘either Delve or Heist’ as the option. We got both though in PoE… so clearly there is a status existing which allows people to pick and choose what to do at any given time without downsides or upsides accordingly, right?
Same thing with MG and CoF. They’re not mutually exclusive systems, you can set it up in a manner where interference is a non-issue and allows playstyle choice. And that’s the goal. Nothing else.
No ‘but now I gotta trade!’… screw off, that would be a failed outcome.
And neither ‘but I have to stop trading to actually get rewards!’, which is the current state actually long-term… screw off with that too, failed outcome.
The task it to provide a long-term functioning outcome with choice rather then indirect demand.
If pushed to the extreme any system which provides rewards does have that.