Suggestion re. the Legendary Potential mechanic

That is because the goblins in D3 were at least interesting and dropped useful loot, as opposed to D4 where you see a goblin on the map and don’t even bother going there.

It will. Initially they were saying that PoE2 would just be a separate campaign and then integrated into PoE1 endgame systems. But it seems they scrapped that idea and now it’s a totally different game. Which means you can’t have everything PoE1 had.
It’s true that they have a big team and have been working on it for quite a few years now, and I could be wrong, but I would be genuinely surprised if they had 1/10th of the endgame mechanics PoE1 has.

It don’t need to be a carbon copy of PoE but if we have only half the story to begin with and they take another 10 years to get stuff rollin I just wait 10 years.

Yeah, but doesn’t that make it even more important to have a good plan which makes the optimal usage of their time and hence funds? Warranting to dial that down as the first and foremost thing to reduce every single but of excess that is possible?

I can only speak from my position there, but if I was in charge of having to make the decision of what to prioritize then I would’ve dropped the faction content for later, focused on improving the experience of the monoliths, put the designers onto making assets for MTX and providing a few extra bosses and have 1 person dedicated purely to quality control and checking if everything is functioning properly.
Hence improving the time one can spend in-game before getting to the cut-off point we have currently and providing a money revenue to take care of funds.

Oh, it absolutely is! Can’t argue there. If someone asks me if I enjoy the game I’ll immediately answer ‘yes’.
Nonetheless, despite that, if someone asks me if I can recommend to buy the game I’ll immediately say ‘no’.
Disparity? Yeah, absolutely! But at one stage I’m speaking as a individual who’s played tons of ARPGs and enjoy them to hell and back… and with the second I’ll talk from the perspective of a customer receiving a product… and as simply a customer receiving a product without knowledge about said product I wouldn’t be able to simple tell someone ‘get it’ as I can’t with a clean conscience tell someone to buy something which I personally don’t see as ‘a well polished and full product’ without being a early adopter going into it to support the future (hopefully) finished product.
In comparison if someone had asked me 1 day before release if it’s worthwhile to support the game’s development early on I would’ve said without a second’s thought ‘yes, go for it! LE is absolutely worth to support so they can make the game better!’

So, that still stands. If someone wants to buy a ‘released’ game I can’t say ‘do it’ but if they know what they get into and understand it despite the tag given to be a early access game I’ll immediately tell them they should do exactly that.

With proper balancing for the classes… absolutely for something like this! It would make sense after all.
In the current messy balancing state? Nah :stuck_out_tongue: Would piss off so many people which had the bad luck to choose a ‘bad’ build that I think it would’ve negative consequences outpacing the positive ones.

Will definitely be interesting, especially since they took care of the gold duping. And if they do some changes to MG.
Otherwise we’ll likely see the same issues as this time, a mess of a market and nothing ever fitting properly to the stage of the game, depending on amount of people actually starting this cycle.

But definitely something I’m looking forward to since I’m really interesting to see if my thoughts will turn out to be true completely, partially or - albeit I think unlikely in this scenario - turn out to be utterly wrong. It’ll be a enjoyable experience one way or the other for me :wink:

Yeah, I have no utter clue why they did that! Or many other things. Like… grayish-blue indicators of abilities in a ice-blue arena? The one waving that design through must’ve been drunk at that time :stuck_out_tongue:

True, but we also have to take into consideration that outside pressure is huge. Meaning how long they can hold people with their product without releasing for example, it was a massive hype and influx for LE.
And also how well prepared the content should be. Every single new mechanics needs intensive testing and tweaking after all. If you implement too many at once and have no proper measuring well… measures prepared (which I think EHG lacks, like tracking play-time in different areas and collecting data directly from play-sessions) then it easily leads to balancing everything into wrong directions, costing funds, time and effort which could all be used to progress the game.

It’s generally always a mess to handle those things, but overall… you’re absolutely right! Devs have proven to provide ridiculous amounts of contents in genres nobody ever believed it could happen realistically… so I’m holding devs to high standards, I think 80% of development comes by having a good plan, 20% comes from the actual skill of the developers… because their skill-level can be raised over time, but a good plan is not something which many people can make.

Yeah, my worry as well.
Their core mechanics are fantastic.
The ‘new’ stuff at parts is a mess though. Dungeons always felt unfinished, storyline could screw them over if major changes are in demand until it’s finished… and the factions cause a major mess and complexity which the game could do without currently still. Foresight for it but not executed yet.

Also something I’m definitely looking forward to! It’ll be a great comparison after all, they re-worked so many of their systems during development even that I’m very curious how it works out. We’ll get to see it at the end of the year already, so the waiting time won’t be ‘too long’ there.
Not like they postponed their release before, right? :stuck_out_tongue:

What I find interesting is that they guarantee all MTX from PoE 1 to work in PoE 2, which is… interesting definitely, allowing people to traverse over and be shiny as they like at times.

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I don’t think it will be 10 years to catch up, but it will probably be 2-3 years.
Again, I could be wrong. I have no inside knowledge. It’s just how I expect it will go, considering the time PoE required to get this big.
I expect them to have more endgame systems than LE/D4 do at this point, but I doubt it will be as extensive as PoE1’s.

As a programmer I can tell you that this isn’t possible. There’s a programmer joke that goes “This will require 1 month to complete, so we’ll tell the client that it will require 2 months so he won’t be too mad when we deliver the product in 3 months”.
No matter how much you plan, there are many many many things in programming that can cause delays, some massive. Some even require re-writing old code from scratch.

Even recently I was working on a system in our software that I was expecting to require 2 weeks at most and it ended up needing 6 weeks instead.

So I find it entirely likely that they had a plan for all this stuff and hoped to finish it before launching. And it probably didn’t help that they had to change lots of things due to the community feedback.

Lots of players would have complained if you didn’t have trade at launch. They already complained not having it in EA.

Honestly, this is, to me, the least important thing for launch and I’m glad they didn’t focus on it. It’s important for after launch, to be able to maintain the servers, but focusing on MTX first would have simply opened the way to criticism that they just want to milk the players.

It’s impossible for just 1 person to do that. Especially because a single person testing things tends to get “formatted” in a certain way of doing it and is blindsided from other issues/interactions.
Which is why they set up the community testing team. You need many different people testing the same thing in many different ways to find the issues. And, as has been seen on launch with the broken builds that escaped control, even that is not always enough.

D4 had literally hundreds of testers and there was still a big lack of balance at launch. Especially for early leveling.

A big part of knowing if you recommend a game to someone or not is knowing what types of games they like. So the question wouldn’t be so much as “Would you recommend the game to another gamer?” but rather “Would you recommend the game to another diablo-like player?”.

Maybe you’ll still say no, but in my case, I’d absolutely say yes.

I don’t expect that will be the last time that will happen. Duping happened on and off several times in PoE over the years. Sometimes directly with currency, sometimes with gear, sometimes with the mechanics themselves.
So I expect that bugs that will affect the market negatively will still occur in the future. We hope it will rare and that they’ll react to it quickly, but it will happen.
At least it’s not like Blizzard that just ignored the duping altogether.

I know the feeling all too well, my knowledge doesn’t come from programming but instead ‘only’ from logical gate creation, the most I did was assembler code when I initially learned my first job, so I can’t make a program but I can do things like creating a smart home system from scratch, including a clock for a multiplexer system and hence the first stages of a proper bus-system in microelectronics.
It has the same trickle-down issues presented as in programming, having to build up systems from scratch if you don’t have enough foresight to create the basic structures accommodating the functions beyond… and even more dangerous of proper and streamlined documentation on the design-parts isn’t done.

Which is also while I know of those issues I think a large portion of those can be handled with proper foresight, proper documentation and especially proper flowcharts for the singular segments. It might seem overkill to invest that amount of time into something like this but in the grand scheme of things like repositioning people, bringing new people into any part of the project and making up for sick-leave… it actually saves time despite the heavy investment initially, especially if a proper guideline for programming as well as documentation is provided, optimally in detail if it’s known how many ticks any respective command line uses to make said program as efficient as possible.

It’s how for example ‘Factorio’ went along with their game, they’ve taken their game concept and are also using it for their programming, making everything as streamlined and effective as possible.
You can see it with the sheer scale of changes they present in a short amount of time as soon as they start to sit down on something, their Friday-Updates are a delight to follow simply for the explanations of what’s been addressed and how. It describes their thought-processes, what they actually did in detail on a programming baseline and clearly showcases how a well oiled programmer team can cause literal miracles in a short amount of time.

For example their speed for adjusting an UI into a ridiculously in-depth and overly functional thing any engineer drools over is ridiculous, I would imagine giving them the MG UI and they would re-make it in a month to be on par with the trade site of PoE while going beyond with the database access to make everything smooth as butter while also reducing the strain on that poor burning server we currently got for the bazaar.

Generally… I see quite a lot of similarities between engineering and programming, in a oversimplification it’s after all taking single parts and making a functional whole out of them with the least points of problems and highest efficiency possible.

So I simply think the two major bottlenecks for most studios is programming efficiency as well as asset creation.

Oh, for me as well, absolutely agreed.
It’s a easy and permanent revenue stream though for the devs, currently we have the one time payment for the game… they got ongoing server costs though. For any life-service game the steady funding stream is important, which is why I’m saying I would guarantee it as soon as possible to have a feedback on how well it performs and how much the studio can be safely scaled up without ever falling in danger of well… falling apart.

I’m not talking about the ‘whole’ QA there, just the bits which seemed to have ‘gone under’.
Which is the ‘polishing’ aspect of the game. ‘Does Node ‘n’ function correctly?’ or ‘Is this aspect of the UI existing?’ and ‘Does this UI element function as necessary?’

We’ve seen a few issues there in all of those, and they generally leave a very bad aftertaste.
Checking for the right numerical values should be a given, hasn’t been done though since we got broken ward nodes having a decimal error.
We also are missing a functioning security check for controller when choosing the mastery. It defaults to ‘yes’ instead of ‘no’.
Also we have for example missing affixes in the bazaar, especially for idols.

All those 3 aspects are things which a single person can check on even, all falling under the core aspects of quality control which is a necessity to get 100% right every single time without fail.
Why I’m saying ‘1 person’ is that it doesn’t need more solely for this aspect… but it needs someone dedicated mainly to that and only helping out otherwise when there’s time. Which means someone making a character of every class, clicking through every single conversation line and possible UI interaction available and making sure every single one is implemented and done right. Also repeating that with the controller.
With debugging it’s easily a job handled in a week’s time for a single person to check those things… which hasn’t been done though, the proof being that not a single or 2 mistakes are there but several major ones in total, the amount culminating showcases that nobody was clearly solely dedicated to that task… but that’s one of the most important tasks to handle at latest a month before release to make sure any last minute adjustments can be re-done again afterwards.

Yeah, balance is another topic, I’m solely speaking about actual functionality being there. Balance is also a completely different topic and demands a lot of time for testing. The biggest issues for D4 also were misaligned hitboxes and utterly nonsensical color-choices for the combination of enemies and their respective areas they’re found in, quite a few of them being nigh invisible when they happen.
Those are errors created by a bad testing method or testing environment. For such things a boss for example needs to be tested in their respective environment you’ll see them later… and Blizzard clearly screwed up taking visibility into consideration, which is baffling given that PoE struggles with that since ages and hence with the much much cleaner combat methods and less clutter issues D4 should’ve had that easily down to a dot as their main competitor provided more then obvious examples of those mistakes.

Absolutely!
But I can’t know that for example when giving a Steam review. Who knows who might read it? New person coming into the genre? New gamer overall? 5k+ hour fanatic for ARPGs of that type?
So I can’t write one in good conscience with a positive one as doing that would potentially lead those without experience or knowledge into the game and hence having a bad experience. Especially if they pick the game to experience the story and ARPG is a secondary thought for them… which is a group of people that exists.

So I can only recommend it after personally talking to someone, which lowers my reach accordingly.

Yeah, who would’ve ever thought for that to turn out bad, right? :stuck_out_tongue:

EHG needs to take measures to hinder RMT through the bazaar, so one way or the other a re-work on how it’s working with taxes, scaling prices and so on is a necessity… but otherwise I would say the core framework at least exists, so it’s a start. They got a myriad of input from a variety of players and I’m definitely curious which parts they take and deem as the ones viable to implement in their time and the highest necessity.

I’ll say that outside of short testing I’ll probably not play if in 1.1 there’s no measures to at least allow actual priority sorting and hence price-checking. I’m someone who enjoy interacting with markets, having been a trader in Eve Online… and hence I can’t deem the market as being very functional since core mechanics for someone wanting to invest themselves into it are simply missing still.

I believe the core of 1.1 is the Harbingers. And yes, nobody talks about it, because we have no idea yet what they might be.

But I do share your feeling, especially as I am famous for being a weirdo who cares about the campaign. I am not planning to come back for 1.1 but I will play 1.2 to see the new chapter (and most likely very few seasons afterwards until the 12 chapters are in. If myself and the planet Earth are still alive and well by then.)

It was their descission to make a game. Noone forced them. If they can’t stand the pressure don’t put yourself out there… easy. As I said in other topics: I don’t let any proctetive explanation fly. I’m sure they had their reasons why they wanted to push the game out at the given time. I’m almost 99% sure it were good and valid reasons but again… they took money for a product they made by choice and what they released in the sorry state it is/was by choice. It’s on them no matter what.

Don’t start with dungeons please. I normaly love dungeon gameplay but the dungeons in LE are so terrible I don’t even want to do them.

It don’t need to be it just needs to be something with substance, something that make people want to grind, something fun and not tiresome and everything is fine. If I can only play the story over and over again I’m instantly out :slight_smile: .

That’s not wierd at all. I hate it that there is no conclusion and we left hanging in the air with such a cliffhanger so to speak.

The Roadmap is not extensive and only shows some of the major features.

Also The Harbinger/Pinnacle Boss System is an entire System, it is not just a singular boss.

And then there still is the Nemesis System which might or might not be linked to the Harbingers, but it sounds like Random stuff for echoes.

While there will always be people wanting more they can’t add content worth of 10 years development into one single patch. Of course it will take time.

Every single pieces on the roadmap, without having all the infos, sound exactly like the stuff the majority of people always wanted for the game and people still complaining…

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Isn’t it? I just googled “Pinnacle” and it’s a pretty obvious defenition. I have 0 clue about it and only look at the official informations we have and therefor I can’t paint a picture. I can only look at said information and come to a conclusion like I did.

I’m just pumped to know how you came to the conclusion that there are more bosses.

I’m no majority no matter how big I am ^^. I have my own personal wishes, taste and expectations and they are not in line with any majority. I’m used to not be 100% happy with the outcome but i still voice my concerns and wishes no matter how minor they are :wink: .

We don’t know if there are multiple bosses. But There is an entire system behind that one boss at least. (This was said multiple times by Mike on the dev stream)

My first impression was multiple gatekeeper bosses akin to Guardians on PoE. We have to see.

If it is not multiple bosses, maybe new echoes/areas/encounters that give you access to that one boss.

Yeah to me it sounded more like a kill stuff that unlocks a boss and then kill the boss. Nothing to fancy in my book but I could be wrong because we don’t have infos yet.

Did you saw the Harbingers Teaser?

This shows at least 2 big mosnters. I don’t know if one of the already isthe pinnacle boss, but I doubt it:

We already have big monsters ingame and they are not bosses by any means but just… big. From this trailer I can’t say “Oh look those are bosses of some sort!”. Will there be more then one boss? Likely so yeah. Will they be something new and fresh? To a certain small degree. Will they be enough or will they be a small stepping stone? Most likely they will be ripped appart. Worst case said “bosses” exist in an already existing game mode and are not in new zones or found through some “secret side zones” that are barren since forever or behind some time travel quests where you need to do specific stuff in specific time lines to spawn them.

Let’s put it that way… worst case those big ones are harbingers and they spawn when you killed x ammounts of enemies in a timeline or something boring like that. Or they took inspiration from Wolcen and these bosses are like the enemies that got spawned in their mapping part of the game and follow you arround trying to fuck you up.

I need to see the mechanic when it’s live but right now I can’t force myself to have any hopes that the next “content update” are just x amount of fights more + on big bad boss.

I don’t have information that make me think otherwise and maybe I’m a doomsayer here but I can’t build up any kind of hope for the next season.

BTW sorry to anyone who wanted to talk about legendary potential and the derailing that happened. Maybe we should ask a mod to make a new thread and cut out everything that has nothing to do with the topic at hand. Sorry.

It certainly helps, and I’m sure they did all the dataflow charts and got everything organized. But when you’re using someone else’s engine, there are always things that escape your control. You thought you could do X, but when you actually start to code you find out it doesn’t work as it should and you need to redo things.
Also, like I said, community driven changes would also delay their plan.

You have studios with teams of thousands that plan a game and even make their own engine, and yet games get delayed all the time. It’s pretty much inevitable.

You can simply write: “If you’re a diablo-like fan you’ll like it, otherwise it’s incomplete”. Or however you want to phrase it.
It’s like recommending bands. Any band will have people that like them or not. It all depends on their tastes. So you’d recommend them saying “If you like power metal, then you’ll like Helloween” or “If you like trance, then you’ll like Infected Mushroom”.

Pinnacle bosses in PoE are a whole system as well. When it was Sirus, you had to chase the conquerors all over the map and kill each of them before you could take on Sirus.

That’s what all pinnacle bosses are in every ARPG, except when you make the pinnacle boss available with little effort.

TBF, this is how it works at the moment. If you have double the chance to find a unique, you’ve got double the chance for it to have LP.

Would you have preferred LE to be “delayed” by ~13 years in order for them to get the same amount of content that PoE has?

I’d be surprised if it didn’t have all of the content that PoE has. Afterall, they can “just” convert it, it’s, like, a 5 minute job.

That’s because they’re front & centre on the roadmap for 1.1.

What do you do again? You’re world-class at whatever it is you do & everything is flawlessly executed every time?

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:laughing:

If it only was about me and what i want from the game I wanted the game to be finsihed with the story and the classes with some groundwork in balancing and another endgame activity and more progression possibilities after lvl 75. The content that is there isn’t enough but adding to much instantly would be overwhelming. So I want a sweetspot inbetween and all I got is a “to little to late” because right now we have a lot of competition what wasn’t the case in all the years PoE was cooking.

I’m a customer who payed for a product and I’m entiteld to a complete experince if a game is released. I’m not entitled to any future additions to the game but at least to complete groundworks. If this is to much to ask for then it is a fail for me personaly.
I helped a neighbour in the garden for a bit and I suck at it and when he ofered me money I refused because at the end of the day I did so little that wasn’t worth to get payed for. Maybe with this little (and bad) RL example you get my idea behind and reasoning. If he wants some SMD certified soldering for whatever Tech he’s working on I take money for it because I’m realy good doing that kind of stuff. If I for whatever reason mess this task up or underdeliver I take the blame and fix what I done wrong or missed doing to start with.

This is already how it is. Since 1.0 corruption does increase LP chance.

On top of that higher corruption gives you more uniques and more uniques gives you more chances at LP.

The LP chance yes but this only indirectly increase the chance of higher LP items. I discribed it very badly reading it again. Sure C is increasing the chances for LP that’s all well and fine ^^. What I originaly wanted to say is that the chance of a higher LP roll should be increased as well. Not by a quatermile but slowly and steady.

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