[Suggestion] Casual player: PoE is a bad game

[Temjiu]

I agree with this. Trading should be an interesting aspect of the game, NOT the primary means to end game build design and functionality. I should not have to trade to build interesting and diverse builds.

Now, part of this issue in PoE relies on how the character is designed: gear is integral to your skillset and power of said skills. Thus in order to make certain builds, you NEED certain items.

with skills and skill improvement being integral to the CLASS in this game, trading won’t have as much of an impact in the same way. however, I still would rather have finding gear being the primary focus rather then trading gear.

[lordlosh]

Looking at this game and waiting for its release to try it. I also played Path of Exile, first time about 6 months in the begining, and from September last year. But decided to quit. Im a guy with a work, and spend 3-4 hours every day playing, sometimes more if at rest or holidays. A lot of players are like that, and if you are not one of them, when you grow up, you will be the same.
So now on the OP points and what i think about some of the topics:
1: Gear Imbalance i totally disagree. Unique is what makes every game interesting. Their colour is great, they should give emotion when drops, also there should be end game unique, as well as build enabling unique.
Big problem of POE is the drop system and 99% crap unique, unless it`s meta unique. Big reason why i quit the game.
Why some not agree, for me perfect balance should be 50/60/'70% equipped uniques, rest rares/sets.
And for that u need great end game unique, and also “build uniques”.

While some not agree on power unique. Diablo 2 has the best itemization and should be example to all.
They have tier uniques, low, mid and end uniques.
You can create perfect character with End Game uniques, but if you really want to be great, you need 1-2-3 Runewords.
I think something like that is the best receipt.
And last on this one, the problem with imbalance not coming from a items, but from some broken game mechanics, skills or build.

2: While i think some RNG should be involved, POE like and im talking about Standard is just wrong. Its purely gamble. Its not crafting. I dont mind the game to have gambling system, but crafting should be a way more different.
Not exactly but close to Diablo 2.

3: My only problem with deaths on POE was some idiotic one shoot mechanism from nowhere and some boss fights.
Otherwise im for the punish and hard content. So if you die, you should be punish. The problem with POE is 99% just not do the map boss. Its high risk and zero reward.
I really hope this game gives proper content/rewards.
POE 99% of the drops sucks, you are not even thinking of loot 99% of the items, and boss drops just sucks. Another reason i quit. What game enjoyment i have if skip boss 99% of the time ?
4: I have zero problem with league, unless the game is entirely focus on leagus(big reason i quit poe as well). Let`s face it, right now POE is all about league. Standard is death league. Prices are insane, and if you want to get gear and get some currency - league is the road.
Also legacy item totally meaningless play in standard.

What i really want to see from this game and that will keep my interest for long time is, good game story. Interesting and different end game contents(i know this is not MMROGP and im not expecting this level contents), of course some may come with time. Some good trade mechanics, cause POE one just sucks, and makes me hate the game. I also have big complain about POE balancing team, but here we will see how the things goes. Im totally against item nerfing and legacy items.
Item should be thinked before it realeased.
Also when the core game is fully done, of course to have change with path/leagues/expansion, but not in the POE level, to totally nerf/change and destroys whole builds.
I hope everything with game goes well and we can play the full game soon.

[bacongo]

Hi Guys:

As everything in the live, depend of what you prefer. I don’t want to said that poe is a bad game, but for me is not fun.

I played for 700 hours GD, I really enjoy it but the community doesn’t like to play multiplayer (in this game mode coop) so the turn it bored for me and I quited. But is a good game.

D3…I played with the hope, that maybe something from D2 never happened so I quited.

TQA I played for 600. Great game but old graphic, no support, no new content.

In my opinion with the plan of Implement Season/Ladder in Last Epoch they can warranty longevity of this game. If always you have something new to do, you always be here. If they put also some rewards, maybe can be better. I have faith for this development team, they really want to do a good job and they really listen his community and this is something no common in this years.

Greatings from DR!

[Sirris]

How is PoE similar to Last Epoch other than them both being action RPGs? That’s a ridiculous statement to start off.
Beyond that, criticize PoE all you want, but if you think PoE is a bad game then you don’t know anything about good game design. PoE is a masterpiece regardless of its flaws.
How the hell do you know you’re the “silent/passive majority”? Get over yourself man.

Especially given where PoE started and where it ended up. Have some respect.

On top of that I think a lot of your points are nonsense. There are skill cooldowns for example. Cast on crit cooldowns etc. They are just a lot shorter than MMOs.
The crafting system is incredibly easy to use. Especially with master crafts, you can make very solid gear without much investment. You’re upset you cant get the very best gear in the game without trying hard or taking a risk? Not to mention your lack of interest in doing any sort of research. Boo fricking hoo.
Overall it sounds like you are a typical spoiled gamer who wants to be spoon fed level 100 endgame content without doing any work, without risking anything, and without any sort of real challenge.

Poe is not a bad game you’re just really bad it seems. It has nothing to do with you being casual.

You also clearly have no idea how hard it is to maintain a trade economy in a game. Nor the insight to even think about such things. If a game company followed your design suggestions in your post it would be a complete disaster. Especially without leagues.

That being said I definitely do think PoE is not perfect and could be improved dramatically. Mainly, as others have said, from rewarding difficult content properly. Providing clear and easy to understand mechanic explanations for newer players. Beyond that, a bit more fluidity in changes to ones build would lessen the pressures of planning builds and allow people to experiment.

I feel like Last Epoch is already on the right track to all of those things.

Reading the rest of your post… its just freakin nonsense. How the hell is it fun to be unable to play for 30 minutes after dying a few times? You don’t know shit about gaming man. Just stop.

Don’t like leagues? Here’s a concept - Don’t play them! Wow! Just play the perm leagues and it doesn’t matter.

In summary OP, I’m so so glad you don’t design games.

[g0ku]

I’ve been playing poe since closed beta (back when they had invites on a timer), and I’ve played it every major patch since then. I’ve played it casual (5-10 hours / week) and hardcore (80h + / week).

Most of the stuff (bad stuff) about POE is what makes poe a great game.

Poe is not a casual game, but it can be played as that as well.

Those arguments would make sense for a single player game, focused on story, but OP is missing the whole point of what makes an online, multiplayer game popular. Without those “bad” things you wouldn’t have replayability, growing player base, players returning every X month and so on.

Thank god GGG is not listening to feedback like this one, and I hope LE devs are not as well.

[Roseblack]

As a very casual ARPG fan I disagree with the statement that PoE is a bad game. I think it a rather brilliantly designed game, both from a commercial and a gameplay perspective. It does however go out of its way to exclude certain types of player. I’m sure that has riled a good number of potential customers over the years; “we don’t serve your kind here” isn’t a very obliging message to receive. Nevertheless, it’s important not to mistake personal irritation for a well-founded opinion on quality. I don’t like PoE, but that doesn’t make it a bad game.

As evidenced by the number of different viewpoints expressed here that all claim for themselves the “casual” label, that term isn’t the most precise. In order to consider what puts off individual players from a game like PoE, it is useful to distinguish between different factors, at least between complexity and return on time investment.

For example, I don’t mind complexity. On the contrary, that’s exactly what I want from a game. However, I do want what everyone else wants too: a game that allows me to accomplish everything I want to accomplish in the time I’m willing and able to invest in it. I realise that “time invested” is not an immutable quantity, but depends on how good a job the game does at sustaining my motivation. But there are (in my case and that of many adult gamers) hard limits. 10 hours a week is already a lot of time, in particular as any one game competes with other games and other hobbies for my attention. (Incidentally the only hobby that I can think of in which 10h/week is considered “casual” is gaming). What do I want to achieve with that time? Not everything under the sun, clearly, but I do expect access to all of the game’s features. In an ARPG that translates to the ability to pursue any conceivable build and simultaneously maintain a decent variety of builds/characters. That is what PoE denies me whereas D3, for all its flaws, places this goal firmly within my reach.

Approaching this question from the other side, I can ask myself what I’m willing to accept as being inaccessible to casual players like me. The general answer is as straightforward as it is useless from a design perspective: anything that I don’t care about. In my case that includes any competitive element or ranking as well as purely quantitative scaling (i.e. functionally identical content or items just with higher numbers). I know it’s fashionable to hate on Blizzard, but among all the invective one shouldn’t overlook the quality that got them to where they are in the first place. Ancient/primal gear is a fine example of a game element that acts as an incentive to some without being unduly disheartening to others.

In summary, my take on how to design for my kind - the strapped for time kind - of casual is to consider not only what different types of player want to have, but also what they’re okay with not having. It seems to me that variety (in terms of content and rewards) could be part of the answer: the more there is to be had, the more parallel reward tracks there are, the more there is for casuals not to care about. And paradoxically I think that is, or at least can be, a good thing.

Personally, the only real deal breaker for me is seeing gameplay variety locked behind excessive time gates - if there’s a way of interacting with the game (i.e. a specific build) that looks fun I want to be able to try it.

All of this is of course my opinion shaped by my subjective experience - I shouldn’t have to say this, but this is the internet so I think I had better.