Next thing you want to tell me is there is skill involved in ARPGs :D. ARPGs are about numbers. Get enough defence so you don’t die and get enough offence to kill stuff as fast as possible. Nothing else ARPGs have been since the begininng.
Maybe some day this will change and evolve but not with the next umpcoming titels. Look at ARPGs onjectivly… it’s char development and loot hunt and if you are lucky they look good and have a nice lore. The most crucial part about ARPGs is to understand the system behind it and the meta. Sure you can make builds for fun I for example played WW Barb since forever and had rough times in D3 untill recently but I never blamed the game because I knew every build to climb with because numbers and interactions.
With the mechanical limitations ARPGs in isometric view have it’s hard to implement stuff that realy matters. Maybe Lost Ark is up this ally but I can’t tell because I didn’t played it. It’s easy to build “invinseable” builds in LE but then again out of the blue a random oneshot happens because… I don’t know someone in the backround rolled a 12 on 1000 sided dice. Right now I fiddle arround with a build and while I take 1 to 8 dmg from enemys attacks on monlith level 50 I heal for over 100 per second.
Even if this is nerfed and made harder I simply crunch the next numbers and find something different untill it’s nerfed again and again and again untill something old got buffed. Yet again I’ll always play a char for fun but not if I want to be effective.
LE has some strange interactions that will simply kill you out of the blue.
I realy want to see a screenshot of this. Not even my prepatch bear had such numbers and it was the easiest class to stack resis and life by a quatermile.
The ultimate challange is to collect them all!.. Oh wait… to get the best numbers possible and more loot then you ever possibly can use and to laugh about the nubs that started a month ago. At least sometimes it looks like this to me. For myself the ultimate challange is to play a game I have fun with and simply don’t think about what other people brag arround about. If it’s fun I play it if it isn’t hell I’m out.
No it’s not we don’t have the technology at this time. The actual AI is stupid as a brick when it comes to modern day games and that’s why something like you mentioned will not happen in the near future. Look at the vaccum cleaner effect of warpath for example. You drag enemys arround behind you while they attack thin air because they can’t do smack against it. If there is a rogue class based on hit and run you’ll see a lot of rogues that only hit and never run because of the games mechanics untill they are fixed or nerfed not because the AI got smart over night.
Now I thought about a lot of things and they most important thing is: Different standpoints and oppinions. I realy see all sides of this discussion but I think you’ll never meet somewhere :D. Just agree to disagree and wait for other peoples oppinions maybe there will be something new that give this thread another view noone had before.
Did u watch tie123 or what he´s called rushing kitava norm in 1hour 5min? Don´t tell me that´s no skill! Guys killing Bosses with eaz? U can have a rly high Level of skill in ARPGs. Luckily EHG hired EHG-Karv so they know that there´s skill involved, and won´t listen to some1 claiming random Oneshotdeath are good cause no skill involved anyways! Rly hope I won´t write alot anymore to not disturb anybody!
I watched the speedrun for Kitava and i also followed what preperations where made. There is this totaly unfair version of mario most people think it’s impossible but some people rush trough it after they played it a lot. Is doing the same thing hundret times or thousand skill based?
I like the effort people can put into stuff, the thoughtprocess and the execution of it. Look at “The Outer Worlds” for example, there is a speedrun vid on youtube where someone is playing the whole main story in under 30 Minutes. The guy did a lot of research and testing and training and when he was confident he run it through.
Sure you can call this skill and for the flawless execution some skill is needed but if you are always confronted with the same stuff at the same spawnpoints that does the same things… Don’t know mate.
As much as hurts me but I think skill is involved in PvP games to a far bigger degree then in a always same PvE setup. I don’t even care what enemys I’m phasing in LE because it doesn’t matter because there is no skill needed ingame. If this was the case I would be bad at it :D. Planning and testing stuff and make something work thats the soul of ARPGs for me and sadly those are the most important skills you need in LE, because if you have a certain ammount of defence and offence you run through the game untill it outscales you and you can’t do anything about what is a bit sad.
I can’t even say why some stuff nukes me from 100 to 0. There was only ONE time I was able to pinpoint why I died… twice by the same skill :D. I stood in a soulspear because I didn’t care and didn’t knew what the skill does so I did released and the same projectile hit me again and I died. I wish I had a better PC tp record my sessions and rewind my deaths frame by frame and still I may be not able to pinpoint down what killed me. Yesterday I was killed by a skill that wasn’t even on the screen. This would be frustrating if I played HC but I learned my leasson after a DC in D2 ^^.
LE is on the easier side of things to build something you can play with. It’s more foresight needed to build something realy effective like some people show us with their builds. None of us players is save from oneshots as it seems and that’s bad for the game but there is so little you can do in an ARPG to make things harder. More randomly telegraphed skills would work but with bodyblock and CC it would just shift the meta towards more mobile builds or invul frames or whatever. Everything game AI brings to the table is outdated hours after release that’s why I say there is no skill involved ingame.
Sorry if I sound offending or something like that english isn’t my first language and I try to explain my thoughtprocces and I don’t want to offend anyone.
MB I´m doing something horrbible wrong, but I lost two chars to those guys, definitly with 100% Chance for Glancing Blow! I´m a bad player anyways, but I feel like I struggle with nothing as much as those guys! :F
Well i saw your death on stream, and i dont get oneshotted cause much better gear and im sentinal, but still. As to how avoid them i really suggest running in front of them and dont turn back, only to sides. With this kind of maneuvering they will ALWAYS do the earthquake jump in front of you!! and you will clearly see the blue circle in front of you, as soon as you see it just turn 180 degrees and you dodged it, will work even with your avalanch buil, try it, hope it helps!
I always use this tactics against them and had no problem after i figured it out. Only lagging is dangerous against them …well its always dangerous
Knew u saw it! I had figured out that they don´t hit u when u´r close to them! Problems start when there´s more than one enemy! But most likely u´r the way better player! For me it´s sometimes seeing the circle to know I´m doomed! :F
As i understand getting close to them isnt scary at all , their normal hits are just pitful, the earthquake is jump attack. The danger is facing them to their face, cause as i tested they jump and do earthquake in the direction where your char is facing(like ahead of you). So if you are face to face with him and close, he just jumps at the same spot you stand, so it becomes much faster and harder to avoid. Thats why facing them with back or side and playing mobile builds is much better.
Being sentinel and using Warpath most likely is cheating :D. You drag the mobs out of their AOEs and be good :D. I tested this with my Werebear tho because it seems rather odd… I can facetank 3 of those without problems while I stand in their stuff. Do you have enough life leech @Tears12 because not only protections are importent but the huge ammount of leech you can get. Maybe that’s a problem dunno.
Something interesting about the AI in Last Epoch - it is so bad your character cannot go around a bunch of monsters - it bumps into them. Try it and weep. How can they make such a great AI then where monsters can…I don’t know…trap you or something? All they know how to do is rush you and use their abilities on cooldown. Like in every other ARPG.
i have no nodes in increase in area of warpath or movespeeed, and pretty confident itll work even without pull. Mobs do hit me and a lot…i dont try to avoid their hits much. I use 1 point to pull just to increase clear speed, cause i can gather all of them and kill at once
Imho pulling with big radius is a broken things, thats why i dont even try to use it. Pull without increase of radius to attack isnt op
P.S. how could you face tank 3 of them, its a rare boss with unique name. I thought you cant encounter 3 of them …i guess the only way is through monolith, cause it sometimes multiple unqiue bosses
i get it, i want more tactictal fights too, not just depending on stats, and i dont want to be one shooted either, cause i dont took the meta build, and i dont want insane lifesteal, so i just can stand there and hit(same if u have good stats),
wolcen tries it, it has active dodge(but to many charges of it), its not perfect, and i dont know how the stat and lifesteal progress is there, but it makes the games fights system more fun and dynamic(and not so monoton), or narxia(a early acces hacknslay like game on a steam).
Strong abilities of enemies u can see before they hit, either with areaanimations or attackanimations , mobs can corner u(thats why i want increased density, and have a good mix of different enemy types, so u have to kill a type first)(and think before engage, first sec in engage )
just run away and heal up(like in grim dawn bossfights) makes it not better, for mobfights its ok(if u can escape), i still think active dodge is the solution, so u can nerf sustain builds, and oneshoot/high burst dmg(not by dmg, by seeing it coming), the game would still be the same, just improved, and the fights shouldnt be longer with it either (at least not much)
yea, and before it comes, its a little different to balance, but still, balance is needed
and no, normal mobility skills should be for engage most time and do dmg/cc(and be slower and can have far more range)
and i dont like the bashing mmorpg comparision( i dont play them), but isoarpgs are basicly
mmorpgs without the quests and with realtime fighting
Well ofc my gear isn´t the best, cause I lost gear to rips and didn´t play that much. I had the Druid Lifeleech nodes and was phys Avalanche, but ofc lacking damage! My Forge Guard got straight oneshot, so no need LL there. Forum telling me I´m posting too much, wanted to reply anyways! Just delete my posts if it´s too much! Won´t reply anymore, so other guys can share their opinion!
Getting better for sure doing stuff over and over again without improvement isn’t. For example if enemy skill X kills me all the time because I don’t leave the voidzone I’m not more skilled by repetition but by walking the hell out of it. There is much more to skill then to do something a billion times untill you finaly managed to get it done.
I get what you are saying for sure but at the end of the day I think it’s more to it. At the end of the day everything is skill dependend :D.
and the same is true for arpgs in my opinion. needing much less time than the first time around to level a toon on HCSSF is skill. knowing when to avoid an encounter, relying on the math behind the numbers or when to pull some strat with lengthy CD that prevents a telegraphed attack is skill. praying to rngesus that he doesnt remove the HC toon today is not.
i agree with OP and there were some interesting suggestions by other contributors. i hope the devs adress this issue in some way at some time as this could make LE unique amongst its peers.
Random oneshots are never fun and I wish to know why 99.9% of enemys deal 1 dmg to my toon and another one hits for 3/4 of my health. I was randomly oneshot today while I played another toon through the story with a different take on a build and I don’t know why. In most ARPGs I know why I died but here it seems like something in the backround stops working and all the dmg an enemy did in the past seconds ramps up and hits at once.
Oneshots are crap just to tell it again but that’s the last mystery in this game so far :D.
Untelegrahped one shots are never fun, so if you guys could write down specifically which monsters killed you in one shot. Other information, such as health and defenses would also be helpful, even which ability killed you (that shows on the death screen), was it in the story, arena or the monolith of fate. All that would help a lot in terms of what we could balance.
