Before season 4 Mike openly said they weren’t promoting 4 using streamers/interviews etc but they would look to do it for 5. How late is too late boys? Apparently 5 is now in closed testing and bug fixing (lol season 1.0 still in bug fixing) but there’s no hype anywhere. Mikes stream had like 971 views and that’s including the EHG staff who watched and me clicking it 3 or 4 times.
I don’t understand what’s happening. He mentioned they have people working on Season 7 and 8 when they could have more people pushing S5 to the public and hyping the game. I think the audacity of working on S8 when the game is in danger of dying on S5 is wild. He also said the gap between S5 and 6 is going to be huge and he hopes they can have a mid season event in the same breath as making excuses around how hard this is. Their scale is much smaller than the usual game we compare it to who is putting out a mid season between 0.5 and 1.0 (6 month gap) where LE has had almost a year gap before and not being able to reset and chuck in something small, new and fun. The amount they add between these giant gaps as well is so small and now you’ve heard them say they work THREE SEASONS in advance you know it’s not because they dont have the staff but it’s because they have no idea how to prioritise.
Another week and another rant. It’s feeling like groundhog day every weekend at this point.
S5 when? No idea.
S6? Probably mid to late 2027 CRAZYYYYY man.
Game dying, players crying (me inc) but lets work on Season 8.
Holy moly!
I would love to hear other peoples thoughts on this rather than Sam and others picking bits of my post, quoting them and then making excuses about what I’ve said. Just give me your thoughts. Mine are obviously all outrage and sadness.
He also mentioned in the stream that they are currently moving all publishing and marketing to Krafton. They’re still in the process of doing that, so when they’re done Krafton will start doing that.
This is how staggered development works. If they only started working on season 6 when season 5 was released, each season would be 12 months long.
My best guess in regards to this is that they’re going to release the expansion in between them and that the expansion won’t be a season.
And yes, doing mid-season events is something that has to be prepared beforehand, due to different versions of the code required for that. Basically, at this point, everyone is already working on 5.0+ and you’d have to pull back a bunch of people to construct a 4.5 instead.
If you know you’re going to be doing a mid-season event and prepare for it, then it’s much easier. Multi-build environments aren’t easy to properly manage. Too much can go wrong if you don’t plan right.
I do agree with you that S5 will be very important. S4 was more important and they lost a lot of momentum that could have brought players back. A bunch of them will likely not even bother with S5 or LE in general until they start hearing good things again (if ever).
I’ll check out the new season but I’ve become kinda meh towards the new content. I still like the game, I still have fun playing it, but it feels like there aren’t many meaningful changes and the gameplay is still basically the same.
Let’s hope the new season changes this. Mike said that it will be a self-contained mechanic, from which I understand that it will have its own zone and progress. We do need something that pulls us away from doing the 324123342523th echo.
Love how you literally did exactly what I said you were going to do at the bottom of my post. Predictable AF. I wish their release dates were as reliable as you lol! I am happy that you actually did put down your own thoughts though because you obviously love the game like the rest of us or you wouldn’t be here all the time.
You’re 100% right about needing something that gets us away from just echoes for sure - I know it’s kind of the same as corruption but that’s why I liked delve in poe1, it just felt different to running maps 100 times a day, just need some variety in the end game of things to do because everyone enjoys different things so it needs building out!
Honestly man it’s not far off this with with their 7+ month release dates and the time before 1.0 came out I didn’t play but I’ve read that was 11 months. I know how staggering works so right now we’re Season 4 and they are working on Season 5, 6, 7, and 8 - thats 4 seasons ahead. Thats like saying we’re working on Season 5 during Season 1 right? 1.1, 1.2, 1.3 and 1.4 the date of season 1 - Cycle 1.1 (Harbingers of Ruin) Dates: 9 July 2024 – 19 September 2024. 2 years ago and it’s still not ready. I feel working on ideas for 8, maybe yes like ‘which mechanic from which season of path of exile shall we take for season 8’ but having people who should be polishing and pushing season 5 right now before the tombstone pops working on it, silly.
Its weird to me that a co-founder and senior dev who obviously has a major say in everything happening keeps popping up on his live streams with “I dont know” or “I wasnt part of that” or “I dont have info on that right now” "or “I didnt get a say in that” it’s complete BS. What co-founder of any company who is still heavily involved in the day to day of it has no idea or say in 90% of the things asked of them? Huge BS card played by this guy every week.
I personally dislike delve a lot, but yeah, something that gets us away from echoes when we want variety would be good. PoE has a few of those, like Heist, Delve or the defunct Trial of the Ancestors (which I quite enjoyed) where you just do maps to get the basic currency (or trade for it and not even do maps at all) and then you go on your merry way engaging with that mechanic.
There are also a bunch of partial ones, like Betrayal, Ultimatum, Breach, etc, where you interact with it in maps but then you have special areas for that mechanic where you can interact further and have better rewards.
Nah, I can totally see this. He’s co-founder, but he’s on a department and not every design/development decision goes through him.
My company is kinda like that, really. There are 3 co-founders and shareholders and each has their own department: development, assistance, comercial. And there are plenty of times when assistance or comercial have no idea what we’re doing in development. Sometimes not even after we release it.
Obviously that’s not ideal and there should be more communication around. But EHG is a big team these days and they compartmentalize things. So I can definitely see Mike having knowledge and input on the big picture stuff but not knowing if change A or B is going to make it next season because another team is handling that.
I do think that they play it too close to the vest with stuff that’s coming. They should have better spoilers. They should be able to kinda outline what the next mechanic is. They should be able to tell us what the next skills are.
I have no issue with the "I don’t know"s Mike says, because I believe him. I do have an issue with simple stuff like loot filter changes or stash layouts being answered with “I can’t talk about that”.
I’m hyped, Season 5 will be here before you know it. You did watch Aaron’s recap from yesterday correct? EHG/Krafton are switching up the marketing and I bet it won’t be long at all before we get some official teaser info. with a launch date. I’m betting on Oct. 1st personally
The only other thing I am aware of launching in October is “No Rest for the Wicked”, and EHG should avoid conflicting with that by at least 3 weeks, because they will draw the same player base. November/December is simply too late and too packed with other releases so late Sept., early October is the only thing that makes sense to me.
That’s plainly spoken a failure from his side though.
As a larger-scale owner of the shares - given he is a grassroots team-member after all and likely had a significant amount - it’s a shortcoming of not following up on being informed, even if it’s not your department.
This is only due dilligence.
I plainly spoken have an issue with both hence. One shows why it went so badly as it did, the other as well, but in another direction simply.
I don’t agree with that. Yes, Mike is a co-founder, but his passion and expertise is clearly in development. He’s not interested in other stuff like marketing or management decisions. It’s even likely he doesn’t even know enough about it to actually have a relevant opinion on that.
Much like in my company there are 3 partners, but they each have their own strengths. They keep kinda informed on the general picture, but they definitely don’t know details of what the other is doing or how they’re managing their team.
If I start a company with a friend and say “I’ll be doing the coding, you’ll be doing the selling”, it’s obvious I don’t care about the selling part or the decisions that involve it. Nor do I wish to.
Judd is the one that is involved in all those decisions. He’s the CEO. He has to be aware of all that’s going on and likely gives his input in all areas. Development, though, is likely distributed between Mike and the other seniors.
Yeah man fully get the department thing but to me “development” means exactly that right so ideas that get developed so like game play ideas, mechanics, skills all that kind stuff that is created/developed should go through that rough area, least that’s how it works in my mind I mean sure I don’t know the exact specifics of it but thats how I feel it should be.
I also know for a fact cos I poked the bear once he really fugging loveeeesssssss his game, he lives and dies for this game and thats awesome and that’s how it should be so as a co-founder and lover of his own baby he should be more involved department seperation or not. I know if it was me I definitely would be. I’m full up in their business now and all I am is some pleb who plays the game haha I can’t imagine how deep I’d be if I was creative enough to have brainstormed a game like this! If for some reason he is seperated from things then man, he should change that for sure!
Doesnt GTA 6 finally come out round this kinda time-ish? Or did I miss another shift? Then the 1.0 of POE2 end of year as well, gonna be cluttered with new games :o
I bet you would care about the selling if you were getting no money because the game wasn’t selling though, right?
Usually things that are in development Mike knows about. He just doesn’t talk about them. Like when asked if stash layouts were going to come next season and he almost said yes but then he ammended to not being sure.
This is a sign that he knows what is being developed, but he’s not sure on the timeline of the team in charge of it and if it will make it in time for the new season.
Personally, I’d like him to talk more about things and not be so secretive. Like explaining in broad terms what they’re doing for stash layouts. Or kinda talking in broad terms about the changes to CoF, rather than just say “I can’t say anything about it but it will make it so that all the current suggestions don’t make sense”.
I think this is a policy enforced by Judd, though, based on a few streams I actually watched fully, rather than just the Aaron digest. I think Mike would be happy to talk about a lot of stuff, but he’s not allowed to because Judd is the one deciding these policies.
Not really. I might try to work it out with the friend and if that didn’t work try to get someone else to do it instead. I certainly wouldn’t want to do it myself. Least of which because I don’t think I’d be good at it but mostly because I would hate it.
You don’t have to be good at it but if I was coding a game and then expecting to get paid but didnt get paid because the sales department couldnt make a sale due to not promoting, not talking about, not trying then I would be like ‘what da fuq’
Also agree with him talking about things - sure if you have no time line as a game I would rather here “we’re working on this awesome thing right now its INSANE and this is what it is, we have no timeline on it but its coming” I would take this every fricking time over him with his “I have no info” “I dont know” “I’m not involved” - those are lies if he infact does know. Even if he said “boys theres a new class we’re working here is the idea behind it - keep in mind boys might be a year before you see it” - least I have something to look forward to otherwise you get “new classes? uhmmmm cheesy grinplays game yeaahh maybe, I’m not sure”
People want to look forward to things they dont care if theres no exact time - I mean every single season since I’ve started people are excited for it and theres never a timeline because they’re always so flipping late haha
Also I think if its Judd holding info back then he should probably interact with players more because he’s doing them dirty and doing the game over ;(
Yeah, I agree with you on that. Saying something like “We’re working on a new skill called the super-duper-mega-blaster and it’s an AoE ability but you can change it up a bit”, you didn’t really reveal anything spoilery, there are no numbers, no details, but it’s enough to get people excited about it.
You can even say “We’re trying to get it ready for next season, but we’re not sure if it will make it”.
I think they’re just afraid that they will not finish it in time and then players will be angry with it, which, to be fair, isn’t totally unreasonable. Just look at all the anger when PoE2 didn’t expand endgame in 0.4.
But when they did expand it in 0.5, all was forgotten. These types of complaints are usually vocal minorities. Most players would agree with Jonathan that if it isn’t ready it’s better to wait until it is. They might disagree on whether it’s best to push it for another season or to delay the current one for a couple months, but they agree on the sentiment nonetheless.
The saddest thing is that even when we’re getting close to the release date, Mike still won’t reveal a lot of stuff that would be harmless (and even very beneficial) to reveal.
I don’t know if it’s Judd that decided this, or if it was a joint decision, or something else. But I don’t think it’s working as it should. It’s like they’re saying “Hey, look at us, we’re cool. We’re giving you sneak peaks of what’s coming.” but the sneak peak is through a keyhole that’s been covered with a greasy film and you don’t actually see anything.
Just showing us a screenshot of the stash layout planned would be more exciting than watching some concept art of a unique without context, or the zoomed in elbow of some boss that’s coming. Those don’t really tell us much and aren’t enough to get us excited.
Some might. Like some skipped PoE2 0.4. But most wouldn’t, like most didn’t skip 0.4.
Like Donzpie said, if they said something like “We’re working on this cool stuff, we’re not sure when it will be ready”, people would expect it to come but wouldn’t be surprised if it didn’t make it in the next season.
And when the work on the cool stuff is more advanced, they can even give some more details.
I mean, it’s no different from the roadmaps. If you see a roadmap with “Omens S4, skill sigils S5” you might decide that you’d rather wait for skill sigils. And it’s ultimately no different from seeing what’s coming next season, not feeling too excited about it and skipping anyway. You don’t need to know what’s coming after the next season to decide to skip it.
If the season stuff is cool, people will play it, even if more exciting things are coming afterwards. That’s how ARPG players work. They do the “same thing” over and over every season because they want to try the new stuff. Most don’t skip a season so they try out 2 things at once. Mostly they just don’t enjoy the new stuff as much and are done sooner.
I would literally take anything right now even a bunch of concept art haha but yeah if people knew cool, fun things were coming they would hype the game as well instead of people like me crying and being down about everything on a forum
Also I love that line “if its not ready then dont release it” but saying its been worked on is NOT going to hinder it’s going to hype regardless if it gets a bit delayed or not~
Yeah exactly the amount of people who say they won’t play something but then give in and play it - Omens I was like YES and corruptions I was a hard NO but end of the day corruptions were actually cool as heck, infuriating as hell but a cool addition and idols which I thought were meh turned out to be one of my favourite things and they can do so much more with the layouts by adding more of them and just expanding the amount of affixs you can get to the point where farming these (when theres a good solid choice to farm) will be fricking fun for me. I can picture a layout with some big for lack of words notable lines and then a heap of smaller ones. Ive also said increasing the idol layout by 1 line each way would be sick too. More idol types to slot in with more combos (remove some of the old ones that are no longer valid like hammerthrow lightning etc) and yeah, sorry off track!!!
Point is I’ve said nah that looks crap and then really enjoyed it and you’ll never know til you try and mannnnn people will always try! Even on the sly after saying they won’t haha
Unfortunately, it will still probably have ties with the monolith. Like Rift Beasts. If the mechanic is anything like the Rift Beasts “evolution” nothing-burger …
The dev streams are done on Mike’s initiative and in his freetime. To be fair, I guess he’s been doing them so consistently each Friday by now that the community expects these streams and regards them fully as officially part of EHG’s marketing. Afaik Mike has no obligation to do them. If Krafton takes over marketing completely then we are likely to not hear a single word from EHG for 6 months until a teaser trailer is dropping announcing the Season in 2 month or whatever else Krafton will do. Look at how other companies market their games apart from GGG. No community interaction at all but the occasional status report post on Steam.
I’m torn on Krafton taking over. I fear, they might start to market the game as a regular game with no podcasts or livestreams. On the other hand, EHG only was able to really hype S2 and the recent communication and especially that Summer Sale video was atrocious.
If the expansion is season 6, it will likely be a VERY long time between seasons 5 and 6. Likely one year or more. I’m not sure Last Epoch would retain player interested after a break that long.
That’s why he was talking about wanting to have a mid-season reset between S5 and S6, alluding to a very long time between the two.
We gotta understand that the current PC players do not matter at all anymore. We have all been been squeezed out already and it wasn’t profitable for them still. Krafton and EHG are all banking on new console players. It doesn’t matter what we want, it doesn’t matter how ensh1tified the UI gets for PC players and it doesn’t matter if no players play the game until the expansion / S6.
Next on the chopping block will be loot drop amount, because LF can not effectively be managed with a controller.
