In Ghostlight’s defence, it seems like you either misread or misinterpreted his post. He’s not saying that you can just give a gem to an alt, he’s (IMO) clearly saying that you can pick up a partially levelled gem you were using but set aside for reasons, then continue using it at whatever level it was.
I just want Smite to work properly with ailments (& Future Strike). And the stances to get skill trees.
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Well, look at that. Level 77. Dropped ALL of my skills down to 15 (they were all either 18, 19, or 20). Ran 1. Capital O.N.E. Arena up through Level 45. Now all five skills sit at 19, 19, 19, 20, 20.
One Arena that took about maybe 15/20 minutes to run.
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Drop them to 0 (full respec) and report back to me. Even just drop 1 skill to 0 then re-level to 20, I’ll settle for that information.
Of course that’s what I meant. 
I’ve played about 2000 hours of PoE for the record.
In PoE, swapping gems in and out for a single character is akin to swapping your skills in and out for a single character in LE. There is 0 punishment / loss involved when you swap gems in PoE. Why ManiaCCC interpreted what I said as “giving gems to alts” is simply baffling.
Well you equip a secondary set of equipment and place copies of all your main gems in those, so that when your main gems hit 20 you can swap in the copies (which are also level 20) while you re-level the new quality 20s. A very nice and kind feature that the devs put in the game to make gem levelling less painful. Good for them.
You repeated several times, that in PoE respeccing is basically free, which is not true and this is how I interpreted your point.
You still need to level up every single skill you want to use from level 1. That’s my point.
Yeah, but you don’t respec by starting a new character. You don’t even need to personally level up your gems, you can just buy them from other players (which I’m sure you know).
IMO PoE’s skill system is sufficiently different as to make comparisons limited/tenuous at best.
While you can buy them, level requirement are so tight, unless you are in end game, you still have to relevel them from “your starting point”. Also unless you buy high quality gem which is already leveled up, you want relevel it again.
But here is my point, Ghost several times repeated he want limitless respecing in LE and as example, he is talking about PoE. He want level up one skill and then try another skill in same slot, without losing levels (or change nodes inside skills without losing levels). This is not possible in PoE either. Yes, you can swap new skill, but it’s level 1 so you are leveling up it again. What is different, that in PoE you can swap already used gem and continue to leveling it up - yes, but you still lost xp and time.
If it would be like he want in LE, you are leveling up skill, changing it in mid leveling, than put different skill into that slot instead, continue, from that skill level and if he realize, he don’t like it, put old skill back and continue from current skill level… At least this is how I understand his argument - which again, is not possible in PoE either.
You could argue, that you can level up different gems wtihout using them, which is true, but you are giving up power, which I am fine with.
Again, maybe it’s apple and oranges, but in the end, I feel poe system is even more punishing.
I repeated that SKILL respeccing is free in PoE, passives obviously require Orbs of regret. Skill respeccing in PoE is quite obviously free. If I slot in a Fireball and level it to 10 then I decide I don’t like it and replace with with Frozen Pulse, that FB keeps its level. If I swap it back in because I liked FP even less, that change is free and FB remains level 10 where it was. I have respecced my skills for free. I managed to experiment with builds for no cost. Perhaps I only used Pulse for a mere minute and decided against it. Imagine instead that Fireball gem was flattened back down to level 1 again just because I swapped it out for 60 seconds??? THAT is how LE operates. Far more punishing.
How is this hard?
That is not a respec.
In PoE you need to level up skill from level 1 if you want use different skill, same like in LE. In PoE you can then swap these skills at any time, but it’s not without cost, you are still giving up progress for other skill - and If I understand you correctly, you wish that after leveling one skill to level 20, you want try new skill and this new one being level 20 too, right? If yes, it’s not similar to poe.
I get your point, i think you are missing mine…or maybe we are just talking about different things.
An extremely minor cost compared to losing all levels for the replaced gem, which is Last Epoch’s approach. And of course I could slot the removed gem it into my alternative gear and have a truely zero cost
No idea where you got that from. That would be ridiculous. I just want the level 20 gem (skill) to stay level 20 when I remove it.
I must be missing your point, sorry about that. Explain to me what you think is the cost of a skill respec in PoE.
Well, if this is the case, it’s what Diablo 4 is doing (a bit different way), which most people I found on forums are not fans of this idea. If this would be the case, I guess xp curve had to be much much steeper for skills.
But I could see situation, where you could try skills in some arena, without losing progress of your current skills. That would be quite neat I think.
It’s time of course - or power. Either you are having secondary gems in your gear so you are giving up power or you are leveling just one set of skills, while others are in your stash and if you decide to change them at some point, you basically erased all gem-xp(you got during this time) from your character, which again, is your power - like LE.(of course, in poe it’s more granular, you can swap just some support gems and retain some power but still, respecing in PoE is not without the cost.)
The only difference is when you already leveled all gems to level 20 (and high quality), than you can swap them freely. That’s true, you are not loosing anything, but only once I managed to level up all my gems to level 20 - twice (for max quality) in season - and it took so much time, I can’t imagine I would do that for second set of gems during same season… so unless you are not playing seasonal character, I can’t see this being valid strategy.
Nah. I’m good. I’m convinced. I don’t need to do anymore testing. But you’re welcome to it you need more assurance. Good luck!
But that’s not true. If you want, you can have up to 6 other gems levelling in your weapon-swap, so using Ghostlight’s previous example, he would be using Fireball initially, but also levelling up a Frozen Pulse in his weapon swap & swapping them round as he desired. Or maybe he went to a vendor (not the ones that sell all gems at lvl 1, the ones that sell gems specific to your class based on what quests you’ve done) & bought a partially levelled gem.
This also isn’t true, those gems that you levelled for a bit & decided you didn’t like (or whatever) don’t get reset to lvl 1, they stay at whatever level they were when you unsocketted them.
And this is why I think using PoE as a comparison for respec costs is just a bad idea, the skill paradigms are just too different between PoE & LE. It’s like comparing apples & oranges, yes, they’re both fruit (aRPGs), but they are really quite different. Using PoE as anything other than the quickest, most shallow metaphor or example is just doomed to failure due to the intrinsic differences.
But you guys keep arguing about what kind of fruit you prefer & how you’d like your apple to be more like an bottle of wasabi sauce.
I’ll try this with numbers:
You have one set of skill gems, you are leveling them up and you earn 100k gem xp. Gem XP = power(gem levels) - so now your power is 100k (just to simplify everything and talk about gem power only)
Now you decide you want try different skill gems so your second gem xp is 0 after respecing. Let’s say you earned additional 200k gem xp, so now your second set of gems have power of 200k.
However, if you would not respec at all, your power would be 300k, so this one respec costs you 100k or 200k power based on which set of gems you would like to use. In fact, every respec(or just even support gem swap) will cost you some power, which you can’t get back. If you have other set of gems in your gear, which you are leveling alongside, keep in mind, all xp you are earning is split between all gems, so you are still giving up portion of your xp just to keep inactive gems leveled up - you are giving up power either way.
Each season there is just limited time you will spend with your character. If you wont respec at all (skill gems), in the end of season, your gems will have power let’s say 10 million xp but if you respec often, you will end up with same amount of gem xp but it will be split between active and inactive gems - you may have two sets of gems and each set will have power of 5 million xp.
Again, this is very simplified explanation, PoE has many other nuances, for example finding 20% quality skill gem is basically same thing as gaining instantly tons of gem xp (you need to level up gem from 1 to 20), but at no point in PoE respecing is without cost. It would be, if capping gem power would take like 10 hours or so, but this is not the case. I am playing poe since 2011, closed beta, and only once I managed to cap my gem power.
Diablo 3 has truly free respec, Grim Dawn is very close too - because there is not much use for iron in the game, but PoE is quite punishing.
But this is the bit of the comparison/metaphor that I don’t agree with. Drawing an equivalence between respecing in LE & swapping out gems in PoE is very limited. In LE, if you respec a skill point that xp is gone forever & has to be re-earned. In PoE, if you “respec” by swapping out a gem, that xp is still there attached to that gem & you can swap the gem back in and you’ve not lost that original xp you earned. That is, IMO, a very big fundamental difference & flaw in the comparison. I’m probably being too focussed on the details.
No, you’re really not. Just like xp isn’t split between skills being levelled in LE. In PoE, if you earn 100 xp from a kill, every gem you have equipped gets 100 xp. If you have 1 gem socketted, you’ve earned a total of 100 xp towards gem levels, if you have 30 gems socketted (the max you can have, 4 in the helm, 6 in the body, 6 in your active weapons, 6 in your weapon-swap weapons & 4 each in your gloves & boots), you’ve earned 3,000 xp toward gem levels, it’s just split over all 30 gems.
If you’ve been swapping gems out of your gear, yes, but you can still use the gems that you swapped out at the power level they were when you swapped them out, unlike in LE.
I’ve been playing (on & off) since 2010 & I’ve only ever got 2 lvl 90 characters & beaten shaper once. I have no idea if I’ve ever personally levelled a gem to 20 since I’m lazy & tend to buy gems if I have the currency.
TLDR: I think that PoE & LE are too different in their approaches to skills(/gems) to draw particularly good or useful parallels between the two. And yes, I’m just being pedantic. I still think my idea here would be an effective way of ameliorating some of the pain that some people feel when respeccing. But nobody responded to it, so I’ll just go & sulk in a corner & do some work…
I had to wiki this part, which I was wrong and you are right. But only viable gem slot are other set weapons, so you can level up to 6 more gems at a same time. No more.
And while I understand your point, my point still stands, if you are respecing in PoE, you are giving up power. More respecing you are doing, less powerful you will be in the end - which I am fine with, but my whole point is that respecing is not free.
BTW: in 2010 there was no closed beta, just dev alpha so not sure about date, but it does not matter.
I guess it depends on your point of view. PoE’s “respecing” can have a cost (lower level gems by swapping them in/out), but it doesn’t have to, you can buy a higher level gem that either dropped at that level or someone else took the time to level. In LE, respecing always reduces the power of a skill. Which is why I don’t think we should be trying to draw too many parellels between the two games, their treatment of skills, xp & skill levels are too different.
If you put trading into the equation, i think it will make whole argument even more confusing.
Because trading is not without “cost” either - obviously. All systems are connected. Resources, you will use for buying maxed gems could be used for improving your gear or trading for better items or crafting materials - you are just shifting, how your resources will improve your power, it won’t magically create power from thin air.
Again, I am no drawing parallels here, I am just countering argument “respecing in PoE is free”. That’s all 
. In my opinion, PoE has deceivery punishing system.
To me respeccing is one form of cheating and it destroys the idea of character and character development. I’m ok with very limited respec ability where you can change a couple of skill points, but no more. Otherwise the player character is just a pile of experience points that can be allocated and re-allocated over and over again. What is the point of having different character classes in a game if you can make all of them by re-allocating your points continuously. The player should be held accountable for his/her character development decisions.
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