I’m glad you give an explanation for your (somewhat emotional) earlier responses. Thank you for that. I don’t think you should worry too much about the dev’s changing ‘their’ game every time a (small) group of players is sharing their own preferences and ideas of what their ‘ideal arpg’ is like. It’s valiant of you to try to pretect their initial design, the one you believe is right.
These forums are all about opinions, of whomever chose to contribute / invest into this game, and everyone has the right to share their opinions and preferences as much as anyone else.
A good game designer (team) will know when to give in to ‘pressure’ from the player base, as much as when to give in to the pressure from the sales department, while maintaining their original idea’s and keeping consistency in all choices made along the way. However, the reason I put ‘their’ in quotes, is that any game (or design) made for more than yourself, is never only yours, the end users will eventually shape it as much as you do, and that’s a good thing. Devs are steering the ship, but the waves still influence where the ship will go, and if you sternly go against the flow, devs decide where the ship will strand, metaphorically speaking.
I’m not sure a simple heart/like is sufficient for such a succinctly worded rational reply to an emotive topic.
Somebody get this man a biscuit!
LOL, reminds me of my favorite podcast: “Odditorium”…
Well, it’s true that emotions can get better of me sometimes, but just to clarify few things here.
I honestly don’t care, if some people just want something different from the game. That’s fine and if someone will say “I would love to have free respec in the game”, i see thins as perfectly valid feedback and the only thing I can do is to either disagree, agree or be neutral about it, and as you said, that’s why we are here, to discuss several design issues, balance and game overall.
On the other hand - stating opinions as fact can annoy me. When this topic did not have 300+ replies, arguments were more about “you are selfish, if you want limit, how I play the game” and it took some time to explain, that having “free respec” in the game affects my enjoyment as much as it affects his, when game does not have this option - so we are both selfish. Typical argument was “but you don’t need to use it and you can pretend free respec is not here”… this has so many issues but for some reasons it’s hard to explain why this does not work. And yes, I tried.
Currently arguments switched to made up facts like - “ARPGs are all about this, so game should work like this” or “if this wont work how I said, most people will play like sheeps” etc. This is all made up.
I really wish we would use very simple and pure arguments like “I like/don’t like free respec” and just have discussion about what you like or don’t like about it, but not try to make some arguments more valid via some morale stance (you are selfish, i am not) or made up facts (it’s all about/most players will do this and that). That’s all.
True, civilized arguments are difficult. When I read forum posts like these, I always try to remember that people often omit the words “in my opinion”, or “I think/ believe/ wish”, even though almost all of the statements are in fact opinions, and, like you observed, almost never actual facts, backed up by some valid proof / facts.
Back on topic though: regardless of any definitions of an ARPG (who says LE should restrict itself to a definition or a genre?), let’s come up with creative solutions to the respeccing problem.
Here is a wild idea (not thought through, just sharing my thoughts): why not have free respec while in some ‘training area’, where you can try out new combination of skills, kill monsters and experience a playstyle. As a compendation (‘no free lunch’ logic), you do not gain any XP while in the training area, and no loot drops. Once you teleport back to town, your skills and passives are reset to where you were before. Actual respeccing can then cost time/effort, using any game mechanic you choose. How does that sound and how can this be improved?
@LastBrat @ManiaCCC all of your last few post were very well articulated. 
Seems like it’s not the golden standard for everyone to try having some meaningful discussion without trying to persuade other people about how much better the way they play/enjoy a game is.
Regarding the “trainings room enviroment/area”, i really like the idea, devs could also fit it nicely into the game with the time travel aspect.
You character can travel forwards in time, exploring his possible futures and then going back to were you started.
No character progression at all. Just “experience” for the actual (human) player.
Anyone ever see the original design intent statement for Path of Exile? It was full of words like “brutal”, “hardcore” and “merciless” and it included a design intent that the looting system would be as brutal as the game. First come first served. If you’re not fast, you’re last. Loot was shared and open for any player to hoover up,
A huge debate occurred in the forums over that, of which I was very much part of. It was an incredibly unfair system for one thing because melee chars had all the loot drop at their feet.
Many hundreds of posts later, with the “true fans” encouraging the devs to stick to their guns no matter what. Stay true to their hardcore vision. “This is what I signed up for - don’t betray me” etc etc etc. What do we have now in PoE? Nice looting options so players can have personal instanced loot if they want it. A complete U-turn by the devs on that front. And why? Because their original intention was a really bad idea and would turn off many more players than it attracted. Fortunately they were big and clever enough to see that.
Just a story I like to tell.
I am actually with you on that front. At not point will I or have I argued for free respecs and that’s it. I realise that yourself and others hang a lot of importance on the “choices matter” peg, that players like myself will never really understand. I agree there is no right or wrong answer to this.
That’s why I have always asked for an OPTION. Give us BOTH what we want. Have a checkbox on character creation that enables free respec for those that want it - under controlled circumstances - and that can be left unchecked for those that do not. Then surely we both walk away happy? Options are GOOD.
Devs already said that they don’t want to split the community because of respec options, and having characters within the same season/league/mode with different respec options doesn’t make much sense.
We need a unified system, either one side or the other side, or make a compromise somewhere in the middle.
I do agree that options/different ways to achieve something are good though.
But what about trying to suggest new ideas noone has brought up yet? Or commenting on some suggestions that were already made within this thread? It kinda get’s boring and meanigless when arguing with the same stuff over and over and over again.
I think a compromise is the only way to go, that way everybody’s pissed off.
I think I’ve probably been argued round to there being a farmable currency that makes a respec retain the skill point, or if you don’t have any then you just loose the skill point as you do now. My alternative would be to regain the xp much faster, as I said earlier.
Yeah, i have been argued as well. When this started i was totally against it, but there are indeed some suggestions i really could live with.
To recap some of the stuff i would be “ok-ish” with when implemented:
-
When respeccing skill [A],you have to relevel the new skill [B], but the last skill [A] in that skill spec slots get’s “remembered”. When respeccing again and taking skill [A] again will give you X amount of faster progress for releveling
-
Having a “training area” where you can freely respec and spend points/kill mobs, when leaving the area everything get back to your initial state. So this would be just for testing purposes, to see if new skills/nodes paly out like you imagined.
-
Having some kind of currency(should be pretty rare, but obtained in a good amount in the story playthrough)
My personal favorite of those would be number 2. Would allow for experimentation but wouldn’t affect the actual character. Could try out things like mana sustain and cooldown timing etc.
Great to have some options to weigh against each other, feels like we’re getting somewhere 
The problem I have with specialized currency, is:
- it takes up inventory space (thought this can be solved by moving it to the ‘Respec NPC’s’ stash)
- it’s RNG based, meaning you cannot gauarantee you’ll be able to respec given a certain amount of time spent playing. Unless it’s not pure rng, but that’s I’ve only seen doen once in a game.
- the more you need it the less you have of it (initially in the game), and vice versa (much later your character is pretty much sorted out, and you’re left with 300 respec orbs at the end of a season.
As a counter argument to 3, you might say that it makes respeccing your following characters easier, so there is that.
Here is idea nr 4: how about a progressive system, where you get a fixed amount of ‘respeccing ability’, based on your character level (xp), so maybe you start with 10% and end up with 100% at max char level. So it’s a ‘privilege’ you unlock, and keep once you’ve earned it?
This could be solved with respec currency as a reward for daily quests.
Through story this could be a reward along with passive points or idol slots.
The important point for me with this would be that you can’t stack those currency (or only to a very small amount) and it should also not be tradable. This would prevent instant swapping depending on game situation.
Or make the currency only usable with an npc and get a cooldown timer at respec. This way you could farm infinite currency but you can only respec every 30 minutes.
There are even more ways to connect this:
- Global respec timer per character - One skill ever 30 minutes
- Timer per skill - You can respec as often as you want but only different skills
- Timer per specialisation slot - You can respec every single skill of your 5 specialised skills every 30 minutes
This timer could also be 2 hours or 1 day. This in combination with the 3 different models above results in a bunch of some more or less restrictive respec solutions.
Also the timer could increase everytime you make use of a respec. And there could be another (or the same) currency to decrease the duration again. Or the duration decreases backwards for every day/hour/month you don’t respec.
What about getting a free respec once a day on login with each character?
I think they should be tradeable, but only usable in town, that way you can change your entire build if you want, but you wouldn’t be able to do it mid-arena. Though the downside is that you could run through a level to the boss with your clear skills, then respec to your boss kill set in town & portal back to kill the boss (more so since the levels-respawning will be fixed with MP).
That would feel janky as ****. Even if it’s “just” respeccing one skill every 30 mins. And heaven forbid you respec 1 skill a bit, the cooldown kicks in then you realise you forgot to change a node & have to wait another 30 mins…
They could even make respec’s free up to skill lvl 5, that way you get to play around a bit early on.
I am with you. I like to have a respec barrier, I first preferred the option of a
quick regain of skillpoints but after hearing arguments I think best would be to invest this time before you respec instead of having to do it after.
It could be a currency you build up (respec points) or you have to invest some time after which you can fully respec. The first sounds like the best, maybe with a maximum you can save up. I don’t know, make it collectibles with a bag for them or whatever.
Thinking a bit further, having it as collectible items actually feels good. You give them to the respec NPC as payment.
They could even be dropped per class or even skill specific. Happy respec token hunting.
Agreed on story reward.
Daily/repeatable rewards are also fine to me.
But having a hardtimer on how often you can reset does not feel right, when you have a currency needed for that. Even without currency having a hardtimer feels bad, when you really wanna test out new stuff and after 10 min realise it’s not something you enjoy.
Just make respec only available in town/hub areas, maybe at an npc(could be the same that is for passive skills).
I would also prefer the currency being not tradable, as long as you will get enough from it via story and some occasionally drops. On top of that make the first few level free respec anyway, like level 1-10, or until you unlocked your 3rd specialisation slot.
If they will implement something like that, player also should recieve a very notable alert, before they reach the point, where respec is no longer free or you lose exp.
What ever method they implement, if they implement something at all, i would also like to keep the current way of respeccing without any cost, except losing all exp on that skill slot.
This I would like to sign!