This is not true, though. If you progress normally in the Atlas, your first tree will be totally dedicated to finding more maps, kirac missions, scouting reports, etc.
Your first priority is sustain and that is what everyone does.
Which means that Alva on maps will be very very rare (haven’t been able to play too much, especially with all the server issues, but I’m starting red maps and I haven’t had a single Alva show up in any map).
Not to mention that getting a double corrupt chamber is actually hard and you’ll need to do a few temples before you land one.
So your estimate of when you get a double corrupt isn’t very realistic. Not even for the blasters.
It would. It would also reduce your DPS significantly by not having the 130% increased echo damage.
It doesn’t. % increased damage is a dime a dozen to get and it already has 2k% of it. 80% would do nothing for the build.
On the other hand, increased echo damage is much harder to come by and thus is a very significant DPS boost.
Yeah, that’s my bad. Mental fart.
Unless you’re talking about stuff like red rings and ravenous voids, which are aspirational gear and shouldn’t be taken into account for a build, then there’s no mandated legendary slot. Every build will use different legendaries in different spots and there isn’t a single spot that is universal.
Some uniques. Plenty of them are just leveling sticks with no special affix to them. Same as in PoE.
Set affixes can make you decide to use an exalted piece of gear instead of a legendary. Plus they give set bonuses. So for all intended purposes they’re sets and they compete with legendaries.
It did though. It allows sets not to be that great on their own, but when you use them as an affix they can be very powerful. You get more choice and balance and not just either/or.
Sooo… like I said, not yet properly balanced?
They need more reliable ways to get one (woven tree imprints already help, btw) or to craft one.
I’ve got several of mine via the Weaver node that goves you dungeon mobs in your echoes, no need to run any of the dungeons to get those uniques, way more convenient.
Not really. If a thing is so phenomenally rare to drop that it might as well not exist then “useless” isn’t particularly hyperbolic.
I’m confused, is % increased damage significant (first quote) or a dime a dozen (second quote)? If 80% increased is negligible then 130% increased is also pretty negligible.
But why? It’s % increased & thus additive to the 2,000% you already have.
80% increased damage gets added to all the other %increased damage multipliers you already have. When you already have 2k, then 80% is irrelevant.
However, 130% increased echo damage is a separate multiplier (from what I understand) and you have very few sources of it. So it’s actually very relevant.
Is it? It doesn’t apply to regular damage, just to echo damage. From what I understand (and, admitedly, my testing of this was very limited) it’s a separate multiplier. Which means that if you have 2k% increased damage and you take this, then your echoed skills will do 130% more damage.
At least when I added echo damage sources, echoed skill damage increased drastically.
I stand corrected then.
It’s true I never played VK much, but with the little I did when I slapped on this modifier it seemed to greatly increase damage for echoed skills, compared to the non-echo version. Which made me believe they were a separate multiplier.
Champion ones were, and failed completely for now.
Set ones were there to fix sets. Saying otherwise would misconstrue the target there. It can play into it but it wasn’t the core reason.
Great itemization?
Out of all ‘decent’ ARPGs of that style on the market the itemization of LE is the weakest one.
Ah… sorry, the non-released PoE 2 is actually weaker, but that’s EA. LE is not EA anymore.
I won’t repeat the reasons why as that’s long and you’ve skipped those posts probably 10 times by now as you were active in the itemization, crafting and drop related topics. So I won’t bother since you never addressed it but now you do. So go read it up.
‘Many’…
The farsight turtle and… yes… yes that’s it.
Bridge is limited to 3 inventories.
Everything else is single-use.
I think that the re-roll is also one-time usage? Forgot since I tried it, it turned out to be absolutely worthless and hence I have them acrue since then, not worth the time to run.
Agreed, as I mentioned.
Should still be itemized.
Well, then what is the usage for it?
You get enough Memory Amber to buy most things.
The amount of rare drops when you actually put points into the weaver tree make it so in common content the prevalence of those drops is so high that it becomes a waste of time to run.
And the resulting outcomes are not only time intensive but generally on the lower end of rarity still, meaning the invested time to get a lucky large outcome is so large it’s simply not worthwhile even when not focusing on woven echoes to drop more.
Huh?
We’re at the topic of Legendary items, crafting and hence the drop-system.
Not at content which actually has a direct usage.
I’m not saying woven echoes are bad, re-read what I wrote. That comment missed the mark entirely.
And to not block out Alva, which causes her to appear in 8% of your maps, 4 maps create a full temple without investment. Without investment every 2-3 temples you see a T3 corruption room of either unique or gem variant.
Which means to achieve that you need 13 maps per Alva commonly, since you start blocking out unwanted mechanics early on as it’s the most effective way this increases the appearance chance though and causes that number to lower, since you want to ensure your specified content will drop reliably well already for preparation of farming strats. So it’s more every 10 maps commonly.
Which means every 40 maps is a temple.
Every 120 maps is a corruption.
The Atlas has more then 120 maps available and you’ll re-run several layouts. Which means the chance to get one of those temples is extremely high.
Not to speak that naturally dropped Scouting reports and the general rolling of Kirac missions to focus on unfinished layouts will automatically lead you to the respective points to use it.
A standard strategy for a starter character is to either go the left or right starting route over delve or incursion. Delve for early crafting, Alva for early corruption and in trade being massive value.
Since scouting reports - the large middle ring - are utterly useless to focus on in any manner, especially early on you tend to avoid those as there’s better solutions. Those include the left side special map crafting options and the right side free map crafting options. Which are used either to be in place for the eater of worlds or searing exarch scaling already, the cheapest and most rewarding early game farming strat.
Since that means on the left side you’re already passing by the extra upgrade tier from alva which guarantees roughly 80% of temples to have a T3 corruption of some kind inside and the power behind 21/23 gems it’s a well used strat. Specifically since you’re close to the middle which increases map tier drops substantially, which is important from progression as you can simply Horizon orb spam lower maps after progressing to fill out the Atlas.
Then you already got enough points already to start forming the relevant strats. A speed farm strat (which is a early one used) is solely boss drop focus + shrines, because it allows quicker clear and more defenses commonly, which allows most points to be used solely for scarabs, map drops and quant. This leaves enough on the side to lean into either ritual since that helps very well with early gold, more shrine related things as that is also gold or alva, delve, baseline Abyss.
I’m a blaster.
I’m playing a speed farm char since 7 leagues.
I’m a Alva farmer.
Lemme tell you the stuff since it’s my focus, I get more Double corruption then non double-corruption temples. I usually have 5-10 at hand stored up solely ‘because’. The only difference this league is that much of that focus goes towards the town setup and recombination.
That’s really not ‘significant’.
Math it out.
The amount of increased modifiers in that build are ridiculously high, hence it does maybe provide a 5% DPS loss.
But the 13% to 130% does?
Which one is it? You can’t have 2 conflicting stances at a single argument at once.
Increased echo damage is still a %inc layer, it’s not a multiplier.
I actually don’t, which is why I’m making a point out of it.
I specifically mentioned the relic slot, which has a woven relic designed to provide a skill point for all skills, which is generally one of the most sought-after Affixes there is.
Off the top of my head I can’t think of a single build which wouldn’t prefer that one over a perfectly rolled Exalted item… not to speak that a decently rolled weaver one with that inclusion already outperforms a perfectly rolled Exalted there.
Also we got the alternative options as well, which are leading back to being build specific because they are even stronger then those baseline uniques you get thrown after you like candy.
Relic spots are universal, show me a single build which viably uses a Exalted in that slot.
Next up is a half-decently rolled Omnis. Once more… +1 is the point there. Half-decently rolled is above 50%, which means you get a total of at least 160% res on it, which is valued at 2 T7 Affixes. So a baseline Omnis is already 3 T7, a Omnis with 1 LP - easy to get in CoF - is 4 T7 in value commonly, be it because you slap penetration or crit multi on it, which are both multipliers.
The only downside is not using a Oracle amulet for the DoT reduction hence, which is the only valuable alternative. But good luck getting one with the right rolls, and even then it’s doubtful if it’s actually BiS and worth the extreme extra acquisition effort.
If you wanna talk about itemization and mandatory usage of items in specific slots then lets talk about the respective game-stage again. Because as usual if one talks about ‘I just entered monoliths’ and the other ‘I’m at 400c’ then the baseline is completely different.
Which is fine, so they phase out of usage after the progression stage entirely, right?
Hello 4 LP my friend where even a Kestrel becomes suddenly valuable, which is a clear-cut levelling unique.
Which is a side-effect of the system which plays well into the situation.
Won’t even argue that, absolutely!
But it was not the core reasoning.
So… it’s a crafting mechanic with a set bonus applies. Not a dropped set, is it now?
Totally forgot about that! So a 2 LP is more then doable even!
Sadly no.
You understood wrong.
All base damage is base damage.
All %inc damage is inc damage.
All more damage is more damage.
All crit based things are the crit layer.
All pen layers are the resistance layer.
Those are the existing layers unless I forgot one (likely?)
Yeah, if your base %inc does 2000% then your echos have 2130%. Which really isn’t that important.
Sets were supposed to compete with legendaries (and failing to do so), so set crafting is to fix that and to make sets compete with legendaries.
So same end either way.
This is totally subjective. Some people will like it, some won’t. Heavy likes it, you don’t.
It’s not the “weakest” one nor is it the “strongest” one. It isn’t bad. It isn’t good. It will totally depend on the player and the playstyle.
I took exclusively only nodes for map drops, map tiers, kirac and scouting reports. I am not blocking a single thing. In almost 100 maps, Alva hasn’t showed up a single time. Not even once. Niko showed up once. Einhar showed up 0 times as well. Betrayal was also 0 times (even though they’re not a master).
So the masters don’t show up naturally as often as you think they do.
That is not what we see streamers use or suggest. The most common strategy for a starter character is beelining for extra kirac missions, taking the whole wheel (except the right passive), taking the whole wheel below that (agan, except for the right passive) and then take all the % chance for a connected map and % chance for a higher tier.
Only after that do you start focusing on endgame farming strategies.
So that is only a strategy for the 1% of very experienced players that know how to keep map sustain without this. The vast majority focuses on maps first and ignores every other mechanic.
And without focusing on another mechanic, you won’t get a double corrupt before red maps.
So you’re trying to pass off your experience as one of the top 1% players as the experience of the common player?
It’s still a set. When you craft it, it’s no longer an exalted gear, it’s a set gear.
Are GD sets less of a set because you craft them instead of having them drop?
(not gonna reply to all the %inc replies, since that was already cleared up by Llama and Heavy).
I’m talking from a design and mechanical standpoint.
Subjective liking doesn’t mean great design or great execution, it just ‘tickles the fancy’ then… which can be everything.
Overall objectively the itemization mechanic is sub-par for now. I dislike many many things in PoE too, but the itemization systems are well done there, the execution and presentation to the player tough are… yeah.
Alva can only appear when no other ‘master’ appears, hence either Einhar or Niko (Bestiary or Delve). The pathing through the left side causes a 2 point ‘loss’ in pathing for a 40% chance to avoid Einhar, which you don’t want early on since red beasts are deadly. That’s the same reason why you either go there or through Niko at the start.
Also as for the ‘not as often as I think’ part: They do, you got bad luck.
I had 100 maps without a master as well already… and 50 in a row without any node for them where they showed up. RNG is as always a thing.
Mhmm, the scouting reports are generally used for the unique maps to acquire mor Atlas points quick. Which is of no meaning anymore given we get a boatload of the more rare versions - which they’re supposed to supply - through Seer and Settlers. So that area is useless as it’s a late-game setup for the scouting ones to finish completion. The right side I get, besides the node, for extra Kirac missions, which helps with sustain.
If you use Alva you sustain though. If you use delve you sustain though. If you use Abyss you sustain as well. If you rush for T14 instead of finishing the lower tiers - and can handle it - then Searing Exarch Altars provide tons of Horizon orbs which allow you to bypass it completely, which means Kirac is only good to raise a tier upwards.
Pure map drops aren’t as effective in progression in terms of the same tier but they’re when it comes to raising the tier.
It depends what your build can handle at the time.
Map sustain is so piss-easy since years now it’s laughable. The last time sustain was an issue was back in Abyss. And afterwards in Ultimatum. Since then base drop-rate has been raised and ever since scarabs have been implemented it’s kinda impossible to not sustain if you manage to finish a map and do at least alch&go.
Not sustaining means closing maps nowadays. Which is not ‘the top 1%’.
You can run braindead and throw stuff in willy-nilly and still sustain. As long as you make maps rare with an alchemy orb.
Want me to play my phys cyclone build instead? Which is anything but a blaster but nowadays broken?
It’s my second most liked character.
I play a blaster because I play a farm build. Not a bosser.
I can also play a summoner instead, got one which is shoddy, does all content reasonably well with not even +minion level gear.
Or want my divine ire totem build?
My winter Orb one?
My 3.2 created elemental hit one?
My 3.1 created molten strike claw build which is just garbage nowadays?
They all work well for their gear level and can still do T16 maps today with at times gear that’s outdated since 6 years. At a time when my game knowledge was garbage and I created as much garbage builds because I followed guides badly and had no idea what I did wrong, only having D2 experience beforehand.
So don’t come with this crap argument, I’m not ABomb.
No, because they’re fixed pieces of gears with a set bonus rather then a affix which includes a set bonus.
Kinda what a set is, a comination of thematically fitting pieces which become combined more then their individual parts.
In stories for example we could say a armor crafted around the concept of flowing water, hence either shrugging off attacks, allowing some water based attack or a specific kind of movement which wouldn’t be possible otherwise.
What we have is randomly thrown together pieces of equipment with a mark on it beforee giving it a thumbs up and saying ‘Yes, now it’s a set’. Thematically it doesn’t fit as a set, it fits as a synergizing Affix combination which isn’t based on the gear but based on the effects synergizing.
Considering that after 100 maps you’re already at red maps, that does seem to put a damper on the whole “getting a double corruption at tier 4-5 maps”.
I, for one, am not touching settlers. It’s just a “stop playing the game to get rewards” mechanic. I don’t see that it’s any different from playing trade the whole league or playing craft the whole league.
I want to play the game, not manage a town (even if you don’t have to upgrade it anymore).
That does require alchs to drop often enough. Which, to be fair, they now seem to do. But that wasn’t always the case. I’ve bricked progression a lot as late as heist or scourge because maps didn’t drop often enough, nor did alchs or chisels.
Haven’t had that issue this league yet, but then again I did take all the map nodes, so…
It could also be RNG being friendly.
You love the common outcomes in LE so much though in comparison.
So why is not creating a fitting upgrade in 100 tries through bad luck because of the setup of the crafting system better then the bad luck of encountering Alva baseline in PoE?
With the difference that I can guarantee her to actually be there basically every map.
Which it isn’t, the limitation of Gold acquisition and Dust acquisition make it a active thing. You can do it passively but it provides basically nothing in return. You can though… but you still won’t have the gold to do it.
And it’s substantially different then playing trade, specifically because it has unique rewards solely possible to be acquired in there, which have substantial amounts of power behind it if used.
If you got a problem with alchs then run Bog or Flooded Mines. Bog is accessible very early and showers you with Alchemy divination cards.
And if you don’t wanna run that then run shrines, and if you don’t wanna run shrines then run blight, delve, heist legion or expedition in some manner.
Alchemy orbs are a problem for T1-4 or so… then they’re a non-issue.
Chisels are not needed at all, they are a bonus, but not even remotely mandatory for sustain. Chisels never drop enough to sustain em commonly.
And yes, it wasn’t always the case… back 5 years ago or so, since then we always had at least one low tier map providing the ‘The Survivalist’ Card. Which no matter what thing you need currency wise you can always look up nowadays at the Atlas to see if you got a map layout unlocked which provides something specific to then run it.
Ah, missed that one actually, thanks for reminding!
Yeah, makes the chance for appearance even higher in that case since they can’t ‘multi trigger’ and hence block out a potential positive roll from each other anymore.
It’s still “play the game so you can stop playing for an hour to get rewards”. It’s no different than the prophecies mechanic, which I’ve already expressed dislike about before, and which PoE got rid of a long time ago for that very reason.
What unique rewards can you get from it that you can’t get from trade?
Yes, much like playing Expeditions is ‘play the game so you can choose a reward afterwards’ or temple is ‘play the game so you can get the respective rewards afterwards’ and so on.
It has no functional difference.
To get functional rewards you need to get ores, ores are the specific mechanic. Without them the only thing you get is farmed plants, which all provide solely currency and no items.
Which is a good setup as it allows to sustain the things you’re worried about, namely chisels and alchs.
Huh?
That’s a far stretch to compare.
Prophecies was acquired currency which allows you to get specific changes to a map potentially triggering. Some rewarding, some unique content back then and some absolute nonsense. And all of it was a messy chore to upkeep and manage in any reliable way.
Which was the reason it was removed, not the functional aspects of it.
The ability to have map runners do content you can’t possibly run if you set them up accordingly for one. Which is a method of using high value content which you can’t get yourself.
Also the ability to create items through the recombinator, which the combinations have such a low chance that the majority of people using it do it solely for the setup step rather then selling those. Which means they won’t be available.
Top-end gear mostly, but also some really powerful starter gear like triple-res amulets/rings. Good luck getting them through trade without massive investment or with extreme luck in a SSF style otherwise.
But yeah, badly worded. But it’s substantially different from trade. You don’t pick your distinct rewards, you use resources to acquire a range of potential things, specifically in the case of shipments resources only acquired through the ores.
If you use map runners then it’s a management aspect of risk/reward unless you got them maxed out. And if you use the gambling it’s simply that… using resources to acquire something good potentially instead of picking up 50 individual things from the ground.
That’s how I feel about prophecies in PoE, in LE and about settlers. It’s just a chore to interact with and isn’t fun.
Mind you, I’m not saying it’s bad. Just that I heavily dislike it because the whole time you’re interacting with it you’re not actually playing the game at all.
In fact, other than hijacks and similar, you don’t even need a build at all, other than to farm gold somewhere else. And even with hijacks, it’s minimal what you actually play.
You can just sell them and buy the stuff you want.
I don’t know what this means. I have triple res amulets/rings (even with chaos res) and none of them cost me more than 5c. There were literally thousands for sale.
I will grant you that getting getting map runners for stuff you can’t handle might be worth it. But it’s still stopping to play the game to get bots to play it for me. It’s something I dislike. I’d rather keep them until I can run them myself.
That’s fair, outside of the recombinator part. Which is now an integral aspect of the game.
Triple T1.
Not triple res.
There’s a distinct difference between have 35% chaos res or… 15… as well as having a 30, 40 and 25% res ring or one having… 45/45/45 for example. It’s a massive massive thing to open up Affixes.
Before 3.26 they cost around 50 div per drop minimum.
Which is fair. I use em to throw the stuff I can’t run inside. Like corrupted maps which bricked by having reflection on em since I don’t have a reflect immune map runner. Or no leech maps, which also… no char setup which can do that. And it helps me cull down the sheer mass of maps clogging up my tab.
Going to have to ask, how can map runners be “set up”, don’t they just have a level & that’s it? So you get as high a lvl map runners as possible & set them going through maps?
Do you need to do settlers stuff to use it, though? From what I understood, it’s there, but you can use it freely, without having to emply workers.
That’s fair. And so is running reflect maps (running blight build, so I don’t even identify maps). I still dislike it.
I suppose I would enjoy it more if it were more self-sustainable (it would need reduced rewards, obviously, or over a longer period of time). Something like setting it up and after that you would simply get some rewards once a day or every two days or whatever balance was required.
Still, that is a personal preference, not the fault of the mechanic itself. I just dislike mechanics that are basically not playing the game (other than farming the resources for it).
Overall, I have to say I’m having more fun with PoE now than I used to (probably because I’m taking a very relaxed approach this time), even if it still has all the walls for new players it always had (and a few more).
Like, going back to map sustain, it’s easy to keep sustain if you know to alch & go or you use scarabs, but as a new player you have no idea you should be doing that and those resources are scarce when you start mapping, so it’s easy to “brick” your progression. You just run 3-4 white maps (not even getting the atlas points because you’re not aware you should be running blue ones, at least), run out of maps and have to go back to act 10 to farm some more.
I feel like PoE, at this point, could very heavily improve and attract a lot more players if they just worked on their UI and their presentation for new players. It’s biggest flaw at this point remains the opaqueness of their systems for new players (and even to some experienced ones on some of them, like crafting).
Ah, yes just meant the level of em, since they don’t roll a lot.
Yes, it costs Thaumaturgic Dust, so you either have to disenchant items or you run a specific node on the Atlas passives with possessed Exiles on the map, which is very deadly.
Kirac offers maps to buy. So that solves a lot of those issues.
Yep, it’s the biggest thing, you’re 100% right there.
I single kirac mission gives you 5-10 maps that can be run, that should suffice.
I used kirac missions twice or thrice for progression, and I had really bad luck with drops, fell back 3 times in tier range because of absolutely atrocious RNG, which is very rare to have.
The map sustain is worlds better then it was… 2 years ago. In Archnemesis they screwed that over (like basically everything, they went ham with bad decisions at that time, left right and center ) and since then not only fixed it but improved the situation so much it’s a non-issue in general, especially with the myriad of farming options available even for low-tier strats. T1 strats are a thing nowadays.
) and since then not only fixed it but improved the situation so much it’s a non-issue in general, especially with the myriad of farming options available even for low-tier strats. T1 strats are a thing nowadays.