No judgement, but I’m really baffled by this. And here is why;
Because, to your point, at level 100 a couple of points repeced takes… 10 minutes tops, right?
You see enough of a difference between those two things that it would make you quit?
I can see how there is a continuum, and maybe you are afraid that this would be the first step along that continuum. Example; I can get how the armory in D3 would turn some folks off. If did for me to begin with, but I got to like it because I could try something out and if I didn’t like it, immediately go back to something else. My character was still, “Storm guy”, but I could more easily play around with what kind of storm guy.
But we aren’t talking an armory-level change here, we’re talking about basically just stop playing mental pretend that the skill system is a choice that matters.
Yes. The respec system as it is now has sufficient attrition that I wouldn’t bother constantly respeccing for boss vs speed farm. If there’s no attrition, there’s no downside to constantly switching, thus it becomes the optimal strategy.
Not to mention that the time I would spend respeccing the skills and getting back to level 20 wouldn’t justify doing it in the first place if I’m just saving a couple minutes with the boss anyway.
I definitely agree that the current system is a bit too harsh for lower-level characters. Full build characters pushing monoliths can earn those points in 1-2 clears but usually you’re making changes when you already know what you have in mind. I think it makes a lot more sense to have the ability to change to a skill that sounds interesting at a lower level and not be punished for the change. The scale at which you gain points on the skill should be just as fast.
At lower levels you are just kind of picking what sounds cool/useful. So to me it’s not a huge deal early on.
At high endgame I think the problem is worse. This is the point in the game where you are testing out new things. I want to see how this skill points works against this skill point. Or could this point provide more dps.
Currently you remove multiple points at a time usually when trying out something new. So now your skill is weaker. Go run 1-3 echoes to get them back. Now put those points in. Go run a few echoes to test it out. Don’t like them? Remove those points and re do that whole process to try something different.
The current system dencentivizes trying new things. LE is one of the few games where I 100% stick to guides and never try my own things. I like to use guides for a reference point and form there experiment, but in LE it’s super annoying having to lose points, level it back, then test so at that point it’s not worth my time.
It needs to change.
Once you level a skill to max it should always be maxed out.
LE is one of the few games in recent memory that I feel that they have multiple systems that are actively fighting against you for no other reason besides just to increase play time. The skill respec system fights you. And making legendaries fights you. Want to make a leggo. Go run this dungeon that takes 15 minutes. Craft only ONE leggo per run. Hope it slams the right affixes. If not, go farm the uniques and exalted. And now run this pointless dungeon again.
The leggo crafting system is one of the worst design choices I’ve ever seen in a game.
My personal opinion is that we should actually make respec a little harder but, to compensate for this, we should have access to a place like the arena dummies where you have infinite free respecs on the fly and can swap class/mastery at will. This should be available from the menu before you even create a character.
That way, you can try out everything to your heart’s content. And once you decide which you think it’s best, you leave and you can make your build already knowing what you want.
Even better than the dummies would be to have some mobs, like D3 did on the weekly challenge. It was one of the few things I actually thought was a great idea in that game. Shame it was only used there.
I don’t see how it’s any different from PoE. In fact, I think it’s much easier. In PoE you have to:
-get your unique
-craft correct links
-up the quality
Then you need to:
-Run multiple labs if it’s helmet/boots/gloves
-Run the special lab multiple times if it’s a belt
-Run heist multiple times if it’s body armour
-Run blight multiple time if it’s an mulet
Once all that’s done, you need to run Alva multiple times until you land on that temple that has the double corrupt and you have to hope that you get lucky twice in a row and not actually brick your item, which will happen more often than not. At least in LE you don’t actually brick the item, you just get don’t get the affix you wanted.
So I’d say it’s a lot harder to get that perfect BiS unique in PoE than in LE. Even if you just consider double corrupt (without the enchant/quality) it’s still worse than in LE.
And besides I think it’s a bad argument to compare something like between two different IP’s. A better argument would be between something of the same IP. Like this system is bad in d4, but it was good in d3. You’re able to do whatever you want in your own IP. What someone else does is irrelevant to your game. Like we will have to see what Poe does with Poe 2.
So what Poe does is what they decide to do. What EHG does their own decision.
Not really. Games are set on a spectrum. Whether you’re talking about a system or you’re talking about the game as a whole, comparisons between similar things are inevitable.
As a whole, ARPGs range from D3 (easy/casual) to PoE (hard/not casual).
In terms of crafting systems they range from D3 (primals where you change a single affix) to PoE (as I described before).
Respec ease ranges from D3 (no limits) to PoE (lots of currency required).
In all of these, LE is somewhere in the middle.
Players expect certain systems in certain games, so it’s completely normal and justified that games look at what’s out there and adjust their systems according to where they want to place themselves on the spectrum.
Much like GGG already said they have looked at LE and will probably adopt similar things in PoE2.
But it is. That’s why this topic is heavily talked about. If it was just a low level problem this topic would rarely get brought up.
This system prevents me from wanting to try new stuff. My runemaster is around corruption 500 and I still hate the system lol
Yes it does. It’s okay to take inspiration from a game, but if you are worried how people interact with other games system your game will fail. Take Poe for example. They take inspiration from d2, but decided to do whatever they want to do with their game. Their season themes are a massive gamble, but they don’t care what people think they do what they want to do.
Look at halo. Halo decided to do a lot what makes CoD good. And most people hated it. They want what makes halo good, not what other games do.
I like what d4 does. I like what LE does. If I want to interact with a system that a certain game does I will play THAT game. That’s why we have multiple games in certain genres. I want to play that game for their systems.
Don’t look at a game and be like “well that game is popular and they have this super punishing system in it. So players must like having punishing systems. We must make some of our systems punishing.”
“Players like that game and it has a battle pass system. That means we must have a battle pass in our game.”
this topic is heavily talked upon because people coming from different games say D3/D4 can’t adapt to different takes on similar systems.
How the system is preventing you to try new stuff, generally just with the base 10 points is enough to test interactions and if you really need more points then you can do 1 monolith and get your skill to lvl 17-18 depending on density, you can also target exp tome rewards or use +skill items.
I think you are confused by the definition of words and the statements.
Inspiration - someone or something that gives you ideas for doing something
Compare - estimate, measure, or note the similarities or dissimilarities between them.
As a DEV of a game it’s okay to take inspiration from another game to create their games.
But what I’m saying is “YOU” using the argument of since PoE does is this way, then it’s okay that LE does it.
That’s not a fair argument. And It’s rude to the developers for when they may want to do something their own way. We should see their game as “Their” game, not what they do in response or comparison of someone else’s game.
So I hope laying out the definitions helped you man!
