He isn’t completely wrong here. If you look at the studies of when dopamine spikes. It’s not when the reward is received, but actually, the dopamine starts spiking the highest at the anticipation of reward.
We’re just chemicals and the nervous system at play. We really only play for those dopamine hits. If we filter them all out…
Mike,
Thank you. I have a tab full of yellow bases to craft on. Roughly five or six each of one body armor, five hats of two types, twenty belts, etc. They’re all there ready to craft on when I want to do that. I’m only at 75 monoliths, with forge points recently jumped to max around 30-32. So I’m dumping all my 26-27s and below. What I can do instead is just to hide all yellow body armor - say - for 5 levels then re-enable it and see if max forge points have increased enough to start collecting them again. I’ll take less yellow clutter at the small risk of missing bases with 2-3 more FP than the worst in my stores. I hear and understand your point about drawing the lines where you think best for the health of the game.
Δ
Would have there already something for “the slider”, lying on my stomach since the introduction of that item class:
Neokortex preferred Scenario 1 (no LP filtering): Unique drops (hype 3), mouse over it and it has 3LP (hype 9), some exalted drops are shown on the maps [map/mini map] and Neokortex is glad not to have run past it again (another hype 3), he runs back and picks up the purple colored item (hype 10 for EHG). 
Not displaying Exalted on the maps while the second component for Legendary is displayed I don’t think is very great.
→ Only a small mark on the maps, more info is not needed. I like to pick up ALL golden AND purple items. 
(Mühsam ernährt sich das Eichhörnchen…)
EDIT:
Ok, in doubt, such a minimap would be quite full of purple stars… mumble …sounds somehow also questionable.
I know you meant Forging Potential instead of Legendary Potential and I went into a long reply about LP instead. So, sorry about that.
A lot of the points still apply to FP too. We are very unlikely to add FP to the filter. I would also recommend trying to craft on some of those medium FP items if they have a good starting point. You can get lucky and make some very strong items. I’ve had a few ultra crazy streaks in a row. The quality of the starting affixes is generally more important than the starting FP.
I’m going to have to hard disagree with you here bro.
This is the exact mentality Path of Exile developerrs have…
You realise we’re going to be running maps 1000s of times… literally thousands. We are chasing loot. The thrill factor is when we see loot that meets our filter requirements, not checking through thousands of pieces hoping to find one needle in a haystack.
Also - Legendary potential is a nice to have, but forging potential is critical.
Please, for the love of everything pure in this world, reconsider.
Thank you for this. Absolutely agree with this philosophy.
Lol, that is my loot filter.
If you didnt want that you need to add in items needing to be identified to see their stats and instantly the game has became PoE loot hunt. The fact items drop identified is core reason why items are better to farm in LE than PoE - im confused now at that comment
People will still use the same filter but waste vast amounts of time IDing Engraved Gauntlets hoping for a good one for example. This is why people skip most rares in PoE as its utterly exhausting. I dont loot rares in PoE after day 3/4 of a 3 month league I play for about 4-5 weeks, infact I HIDE them from my filter forever and just buy rares to fill gaps or attempt to craft my own on high tier bases
Odd, you play PoE im sure and you probably hide 90% of everything that drops later in the league and probably use Neversinks filter which tells you what to pickup.
Do you write your own loot filter?
Tell me how your POE filter is currently filtering all uniq leather belts and heavy belts except for HH and mageblood.
hypothetically, if we were to give absolute control over the loot filter, you could design one where 100% of the items which drop, you pick up. We think that this would take away from a big part of the game. Looking at and evaluating loot.
The goal of the loot filter is to reduce the quantity of loot displayed to a manageable amount so you can see the better options and pick from that. The goal is not to completely replace your decision making in what to pick up or not.
This makes complete sense, and your overall assessment seems highly accurate, but at the same time the current loot filter implementation feels completely contrary to these statements.
We already have the ability to make a loot filter as granular as:
literally ONLY show:
- this exact 2H sword base
- with this exact combination of 2 affixes on it
- and also ONLY show it if one affix is T6+
- AND the total number of tiers of all affixes on the item is above 15
- and hide literally everything else
- also don’t turn this rule on until I hit level 70
That’s already reality- if I want, I can make a filter that does 99% of my decision making.
In fact one of my endgame filters for SSF quite literally only shows:
- these 3 specific unique item bases
- exalts with these specific affixes
- and these 4 item bases with this affix on it
- hide literally every other item
oh and
- please emphasize & recolor any Unique item that is also an Oracle’s Amulet so I know immediately that it’s an Orion’s Eye even though it just says Amulet on the ground tag
I can already make a filter that only shows 2 drops in an entire map.
I can even make it so I ONLY see Uniques if they’re one of the 3 specific ones that I want by combining rarity + item base type.
I can filter based on every single thing that I would want to except for Forging and Legendary Potential and it just feels like you have arbitrarily drawn a line on those for no specific reason.
If anything Legendary Potential feels like the one thing that SHOULD absolutely be in the filter as the entire Legendary item system is designed around the fact that low level “trash uniques” have a higher chance to drop with Legendary potential. I have no reason to even glance at low level Uniques unless they have potential. In fact I had most low level uniques completely hidden before this patch because they drop like 10 times per mono and I’m already SWIMMING in them.
The comment about hype levels for drops feels true, but “hype level 3” for a unique dropping is already an overstatement. I am hype level 0 about 90% of the non-boss-specific Uniques that drop and it’s not exciting to mouse over a bunch of level 8 uniques just to double-confirm that they don’t have an LP badge and I won’t be picking them up.
So I’m not even asking for “let us hide all uniques with no potential” it just doesn’t make sense to me to not even allow people the option to EMPHASIZE a unique item if it has potential on it. Anything to cut down on the tedium of mousing over dozens of uniques that are just going to stay on the ground would be a welcome change.
The same goes for Forging Potential. If I’m trying to find an upgrade for an item that’s already T20 there’s little to no meaningful decisions to be made. It’s a binary system. The filter determines whether it met my (strict) criteria to even be shown in the first place.
My “decision” is now literally just “does it have enough Forging Potential for me to bother trying to finish it?” which is rarely a “meaningful” decision; I’m just manually checking a single number that could have been part of the filter to begin with.
Don’t forget implicit and affix rolls too.
I mean that’s fair, but my point was the loot filter is already capable of being very specific, to the extent that if something already meets all the very strict requirements I put in, then I’m 99% going to take it anyway and hope there’s enough FP left to reroll the implicit.
The end. Not really a decision, it’s more like a no-brainer followed by some gambling.
Regardless of that, it does not feel good to have to manually inspect every single low level unique drop just to check for a number. I feel like the goal of legendary potential was “wow, all uniques should be exciting now because it might be a legendary!” but it’s more like my excitement goes from a 1 to a 0, five times per monolith, and after an hour of manually sifting through trash uniques I eventually find 1 with potential that’s worth taking.
So yes, I would much rather have the personal option of not seeing a unique at all 90% of the time, and then when something actually shows up it’s something that I have self-identified as being probably exciting to me.
There is no fun or interesting decision being made in regards to Legendary Potential; it’s just busy work followed most often by disappointment, which I already have enough of in my daily life.
Did you test Scenario 4 (hide LP<1)
Or Scenario 5(recolor LP 1,2,3,4) - which is MORE LIKELY for someone to set their filter to
Because most will not make the LP filter as strict as scenario 2
Also people will decide how they set up the filter anyways, it is not replacing decision to pick things up because they would not pick it up if it doesn’t match their filter anyways
It’s a bit of a slippery slope but we did consider having a “with Legendary Potential” option for uniques. It’s more likely but still not on the list at the moment.
it’s a video game man, it’s not crack. this is one of the biggest issues with the current gaming industry’s design philosophy. everything has to be about “what’s the most fun and rewarding” or “the data tells us x…” - nothing is more off-putting than devs that design their entire game based around stuff like that.
we aren’t “Just chemicals” and encouraging devs to prioritize the manipulation of neurochemistry rather than quality of life “because data” is a good way to enable video game addiction.
as much as i love this game, it reeks of this type of design philosophy. “the data suggests x would result in a less pleasurable experience than we intended and our vision for the game is y, and in order for that to exist we feel x is necessary to maintain balance” blah blah blah.
I’m not looking for fun. I’m looking mostly for addiction in my video games.
Sorry, have you posted this to the LE forum instead of the PoE forum by mistake?
I’m curious how you would differentiate between “the data suggests x would result in a less pleasurable experience than we intended” and the devs responding to player feedback. And why is “our vision for the game is y, and in order for that to exist we feel x is necessary to maintain balance” bad? Should the devs just ignore all feedback like they’re making a game in a vacuum? Should they pivot based on all feedback they receive? What happens when they receive conflicting feedback?
Sorry, have you posted this to the LE forum instead of the PoE forum by mistake?
nope. i would never touch POE with a 10-foot pole because of this very issue. thanks for the laugh, though.
how you would differentiate between “the data suggests x would result in a less pleasurable experience than we intended” and the devs responding to player feedback.
simple, responding to player feedback is great when it takes all variables into account and results in an overall better experience for the player, which happens quite rarely.
why is “our vision for the game is y, and in order for that to exist we feel x is necessary to maintain balance” bad?
also, very simple. it’s bad because it prioritizes the health of the game over the health of the players. ever wonder why so many games have started adding accessibility features to games when so few had them years ago? this is why. some studios and game designers have come to understand that player health is equally as important a variable as player engagement or game balance.
Should the devs just ignore all feedback like they’re making a game in a vacuum?
of course not. they should take all reasonable feedback into consideration. however, i understand that to many “gamers” making player health a priority is an attack on their addiction, and so will naturally argue against it.
Should they pivot based on all feedback they receive? What happens when they receive conflicting feedback?
this is where experience and vision are essential. many games are made by people with a lot of experience, yet lack a clear vision, and vice versa. if your game has a clear vision, does it prioritize player health? at what point are you willing to sacrifice fun and engagement to mitigate the negative impact your game is having on players?
as stated earlier, many “gamers” don’t understand the significance of this, and as such would incessantly argue against it without reason. some would ask why this is important; and to them, i would ask - why they believe seizure warnings are included in video games? is physical health more important than mental health?
I’ve been paying a bit more attention to which affixes, and how many tiers of useful affix, are on an item. I am still dropping all yellows below FP=x. Packratting all my exalts is expensive. So gold is in short supply and stash tab space is finite. I gamble in between every few runs and save bases until then. It’s not perfect filtering by FP>y but it’s quick and convenient. I’d still do it if I could.
I disagree with the “dopamine > QoL” design philosophy.
Even assuming i could do a perfect loot filter and i only see what i’m 100% sure i want to pick up, the excitement would just be moved to the moment when u see stuff appearing on your screen.
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