just curious are any of these like minded friends playing LE as is now
One bought it already while others keep an eye on it on their wishlist. All of them will make up their mind once MP is out. So at least 1~25 people just waiting for MP ^^.
Who will ever be like “Oh, I’ll choose the long and rocky path because this will increase the time needed to complete my character!” ?
Of course there will always be leechers. That’s part of the MP experience and always was. When I start a new character I’ll often be the leecher myself, leveling and gearing the most efficient way for me. But this will swap at some point. Next session I might be the carry and have another leecher following me.
In my old D2 times back in the days, it was your goal to reach act 5 as fast as possible and then run the first map for XP. At lvl 25 you could do ancients and then finish the first difficulty. Repeat on Nightmare and Hell. I usually entered Baal runs at late lvl 60s, roughly lvl 70. At around 80 my character started contributing to the clears. 80% of the gameplay before was just pure leeching.
You propably can choose the level range for people to join your game so you could avoid that. But personally I don’t mind.
There are plenty of games where MP is poorly implemented and isn’t a lot of fun. But there are also a lot of games where MP is done really well. So it’s not only a question of “do I like MP in general?” but more “will it be fun in LE?”
I hope for the latter.
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After playing a few aRPGs online I started to view other players as basically minions in comparison to playing solo because apart from pushing ranks in Diablo 3 as a group which I basically never did there never seemed to be any reason to play with others unless you need some sort of motivation to play and then I remember based on this comment
this is why I stopped playing with others in D3 as I could simply do everything faster solo than in a 4 man group, there was always someone ‘afking’ in town who would mysteriously appear when the boss died to get their fragment, or someone 3 screens back cant keep up asking us to slow down, or the person who dies every 3rd pack
The only party play I can really do these days is things like Elden Ring co-op where someone summons me to help with a boss/shit area they need help with or rarely if someone needs help with a PoE boss and I can guarantee I wont fail it Ill help them for one kill then I leave
If theres instances where you can assist people with bosses in LE easily then im definitely down to do some party play, Elden Ring/PoE make that actually very accessible to do but i am not keen on trudging through monoliths with randoms
I’m personally also not really interested in MP playing with other people. Sure, maybe some events and some leveling session sometimes. But i like to play alone and play through the game with my own speed. I can relax more at the end doing the things i like to do. Especially in PoE when you have so much content to choose from.
I also dont need trade, because i absolutely like playing SSF currently in LE. You can pretty much reach everything you want without trade if you put in a couple of hours into it. Farming all the uniques, etc. Its a blast to play ssf here.
And i was kinda pissed that they removed the bazaar. I really liked the idea behind it and i still wish that it comes back. It would fit perfectly to the current state of the game. The bazaar still makes you play the game/farm for items with a restricted number of trades you can do daily. With normal trade you can easily equip your char to play highend content in a couple of hours.
The only reason why im hyped for mp is to see if LE is gonna be successful in the future. If they implement a well executed, no laggy and fun mp (pretty much the complete opposite of wolcen), alot of players will come in-> more money for ehg-> more polished content for everyone to enjoy the game.
not just MP, solo progress that will be received es legit will be online as well, so they have to get their netcode working well. looking forward to no longer being alone in town!
edit: hideouts when?!
Aaaand:
No more cheating!
Legit ladder with more functions…
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When playing the monolith in multiplayer, all players will receive the echo specific reward, stability, and the random loot from the chest at the end upon completing a normal echo. They also all receive a selection of blessings and the relevant timeline completion when defeating a timeline boss.
Players still have their own unique echo webs to uncover, and sharing that progress isn’t really possible, but aside from that we’ve tried to ensure that progress and rewards are all shared. These exact details are subject to change based on further testing though.
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In my opinion, experiencing and consuming content with a group of friends elevates that content to unimaginable highs - whether that media content is movies or games, the experiences will always become unique in ways that solo experiences could never hope to achieve.
To give a handful of examples:
Movies, even when they are boring or poorly filmed, can become a social experience made more positive through laughter and the shared experience of “suffering” together. In the same way, being defeated in games can promote intimate camaraderie and teach valuable lessons. Being in a group makes those defeats more bearable - you fell together and you will rise together.
Furthermore, using communication and teamwork to overcome difficult obstacles feels better, in my opinion, than overcoming a similar challenge alone - being able to talk about shared victories is far more interesting than telling a story of your conquests to friends. Stories become more tangible and conversation is more engaging when the people involved possess those shared experiences - each person will remember their favourite parts and reminisce.
As someone who enjoys Dungeons & Dragons (tabletop) and adored games like Everquest, Divinity, and Baulder’s Gate, the party system has always been a crucial aspect of role-playing games.
Being able to clearly define your character in a role is interesting to me. Going outside of the standard playstyles like DPS, Tank, and Healer, it is always interesting to see characters that specialize in crowd-control, debuffs, and buffs.
Roles are important. I feel that the role a person plays often defines them - especially within a group.
My favourite role to play is support, whether that is providing party buffs or healing. I appreciate games like Everquest and Grim Dawn because I do not ever have to deal damage. In these games I can play almost entirely as a pacifist, I can specialize into the role that I want to play and play it the way I enjoy.
As a group, my friends and I (much like real life) are able to fill in the gaps that the others lack; we mesh together and function well together, collectively reducing our weaknesses and empowering each other to our fullest of potentials.
I don’t believe that there is a definition for “good” group. It could be argued that you could combine all of the most efficient “meta” builds in a group and say that it is “good” because it can clear content at the fastest rate… however, I believe that composition fails to embrace the true spirit of a party - where unique and impactful roles are clearly defined and benefit from being used together.
Path of Exile is an example of a game that used to offer unique party composition, where each of my friends were able to take on their preferred roles and I was able to play as an Auramancer with no damage abilities or attacks. However, after years of bad design philosophy (engineering the game strictly for the solo experience), I have abandoned Path of Exile with no interest in returning.
It is my hopes that Last Epoch will be a game worth investing in with friends. I am not interested in playing this game solo, there are far better solo ARPGs on the market.
Edit:
Reading through this thread and comparing similar arguments to other threads regarding trading being a negative, I just want to say, trading will always be a positive in my mind. I love stumbling across a piece of gear and being excited - not because it is good for my build, but because it would work really well for one of my friends (or perhaps a stranger that I could trade it to).
I hope that multiplayer trading can be properly and safely introduced into the game in ways that it cannot be exploited but still allow for free trade between friends.
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Not a big fan of Multiplayer in these kind of games myself, but I know it is important to have a proper and great working one.
I think you are wrong that there can be no roles in aRPGs. If for example you go Forge Guard and Marksman you can have a tank and a ranged dps. If you go Paladin and Bladedancer, you have a melee dps and a healer. If you go, idk, Beastmaster and Necromancer you have a tanky melee character and a ranged dps/support. I’m sure there are many synergies. The main thing for synergies to work though is that you have to plan your build as a team. I 'd love to play like that some time.
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Do we really need “roles” in multiplayer game mode? This isn’t a typical MMO or MOBA game. There’s no need for a dedicated tank, healer, or dps in the team. I bet there will be videos of 4 bladedancers destroying T4 dungeon bosses in a few seconds when multiplayer is available.
I believe that roles in RPGs are important for identities. If the game is truly meant to be multiplayer then there must be dedication to that. While a party composing of four DPS characters would certainly have a lot of damage and be able to clear quickly, the trade-off should be that the party is more vulnerable to damage.
The option of having tank and support roles provides benefits to help round out the party. Healers can prioritize keeping the party alive while tanks can taunt and soak up the majority of the damage.
The problem of not having dedicated roles is that the game becomes individualistic; what’s the purpose of having any other players if you’re capable of filling each of the roles yourself? Furthermore, what’s the purpose of even offering supposed ‘character identity’ and a wide range of diverse skills if all that is cared about is efficiency and meta?
Last Epoch can only be one or the other - it is either a single player game or a multiplayer game. It is disingenuous to say that it is a multiplayer game if it is being balanced around and solely developed for single player content. One of the biggest issues with Path of Exile that lost it players was the fact that it incentivized solo-play; actively punishing players for playing in parties.
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Really? I thought that the “best” players played in parties & got massive MF bonuses, Aurabots? Or are you describing it at some point in the past?
Path of Exile currently incentivizes solo play and it is obvious that their design philosophy is continuously moving in that direction. Recent monumental nerfs to auras and curses have handicapped Aurabots to the point where they are no longer effective (it’s part of the reason I left, it was the only playstyle I enjoyed).
Paired with Map portals being shared, a death in a full party means that there is no possibility for your lost party member to rejoin and it further means that consecutive deaths increase the map difficulty (less players with no chance on re-joining).
While the Multiplayer magic find bonus was nice, I would argue that it only offers incentive to the higher end players (more skilled/better geared) and not to the players that need it the most.
Why do you group in an action RPG?
I love playing with random, new people. I personally find it exciting at the chance to meet other ARPG lovers. Sometimes this results in making new friends. I met one of my bestfriends ever playing grouped. We met randomly by chance and happened to live in the same city. The day we met in-game, he came to my place with a bottle of vodka and a gallon of OJ. We drank, had fun IRL and have been friends ever since. I was there for the birth of his child. We love each other like brothers and have been there for each other in hard times. Friendship going on about 10years old now. I am forever thankful for the chance to make new, long lasting and meaningful relationships.
How do you play with others, and how do you organise a “good” group?
I usually love playing some sort of support type class in almost any game I play if that option is available. I have already theorycrafted a bunch of different support characters that I plan on playing with randoms as soon as multiplayer is live. I personally don’t mind if the group is good or fast. I just want to have fun with other people. I find playing solo very draining and boring in most games to be honest.
This is awesome if you want to get away from the mechanics and group play of MMOs. You are free to play most ARPGs however you like. Not too many ARPGs that I’m aware of that is going to force group play on it’s players.
I can agree that most of the time this is the case in that everyone is zooming around blowing everything up. As such it would be hard to orangize a group of randoms. But, if you have some buddies to play with, you could hop in a voice chat and potentially make a run a bit more organized if you wish to do so.
Just my thoughts and feelings. 
GL HF
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I understand what you mean, but there are also good multiplayer games that don’t have roles. For example: Left 4 Dead. All four players in the game are essentially the same(except for appearance), but it’s still fun to play regardless.
Perhaps multiplayer content in Last Epoch should be more difficult so it cannot be completed by one player alone (because it is not meant to be), but players can play the content with whatever class they enjoy as long as it works.
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I think Left 4 Dead is an interesting example, but highlights issues with that style of game. Once you’ve beaten Left 4 Dead and gone through again on the higher difficulties - maybe even collected all of the achievements - the game is over and there is no real incentive to continue playing. Once you’ve beaten the game, you will have likely seen everything that there is to see.
Back 4 Blood, continuing with the Left 4 Dead example, offered a class system which incentivized continuous play. Regardless of Back 4 Bloods failure to retain players due to a lack of content, it had potential to offer a lot more than Left 4 Dead did because of its class system.
I should clarify that I did not mean that the content could not be completed by a solo player. While the content should be made difficult and incentivize party play, I always believe that there will be solo players that are incredibly skilled and capable of pushing difficult content with good gear.
What I meant, specifically, is that the game should not be restricted by the design philosophy of a single player game. Last Epoch, even since the Kickstarter, was intended to be a multiplayer game and the design choices should reflect that. A solo player may be able to tactfully work through the content, but a well-rounded party should feel ergonomic in the games world.
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I highly suggest you check out Warhammer: Vermintide 2, it is a game in the vein of L4D but with phenomenal replayability.
It also has a very in depth-class system.
But to get back to LE topic: It will be very hard to make interesting party setups competitive, but not mandatory, if the game is designed to not need any.
It is very hard to do balance properly in a game that isn’t designed from ground up for parties to be mandatory. In a lot of these games some of the more unconventional support/tank roles will be either a gimmick or just too good to not have one (mandatory).
I really wish LE can pull of usefull support builds, without making them too good.
For “tanks” I really don’t see any hope early on, unless they redesign some mobs behaviour and some bosses abilities, when encountered in a party, which will certainly not come directly with multiplayer, if at all.
Last Epoch was also meant to be fully experienceable as a solo game.
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Which has classes (kinda, DPS & tank at least)…
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