MTX Pricing is still pretty awful!

Feedback and Suggestions
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Hey all, first post on the official LE forums in an effort to start some constructive discussion about the MTX shop just added today. Specifically regarding monetization, I feel like Eleventh Hour is on a path towards not respecting their playerbase. Not only do we have to pay for the game, but now if you want additional cosmetics, you’re gonna be subjected to prices that are just frankly, too expensive for what you get. I know there may be more pressing issues with the game but I feel like this is something the community should stay vocal about because I think we should deserve to be treated better.

Now, of course the game needs to be able to make money after the initial purchase so they can keep giving us new content to play and everything, and I am fine with that. The main issue here is that even after the initial pre-patch backlash and price reductions, items in the shop are still straight-up too expensive. Currently in the shop we have the Soul Eater armor set, currently the only full matching set available, and man is it expensive! 350 points in total if you want the entire thing, which is as much as the game itself costs, $35 USD. The cheapest pieces are the gloves and boots, both being $5 each.

Now let’s take a look at the supporter bundles. Each one contains a single back slot item, a Portal effect, a pet, and $15 worth of points. The amount of things you get in the packs do not scale up with their price, and you do not get the items from the cheaper packs included if you purchase a more expensive one, and on top of all that, the amount of points you get in each pack stays exactly the same. What makes the Eternal legend pack more expensive than the Eternal traveler pack? Is the color purple really that more valuable than the color green? It just doesn’t make any sense to me. If they’re trying to copy the supporter packs from PoE, which it seems like they are, then they can definitely do a way better job, because the value proposition for the packs in LE is just way, way lower.

Let me end this post by saying I adore Last Epoch, the systems in not only character progression but also the loot are what I have been wanting from a loot-based game my entire life, and everyone over at Eleventh Hour games really does seem like they love to listen to their community and that they want to do what is best for the game. At the moment, even after initial adjustments, the current MTX shop is not that, in fact it seems pretty anti-consumer to me, especially considering that LE is a paid game. I’m hoping that more changes are coming, because this almost feels like a slap in the face, just a slightly gentler slap than the one we would have received if we didn’t complain earlier.

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Like this one Response to MTX Store ? I think everything you talk about was mentioned and discussed there already. Just wanted to point this out have a good time on the forums.

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It is, but I figured making a new post would be more attention-grabbing then commenting in a (slightly) older thread with more than 200 replies, especially considering that this is now a current issue, not a future one.

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Let me start by saying I am a high spender in both POE and LE and have advocated for LE to have more whaling MTX options (so that those willing to pay more have the option and interest to do so). And I still agree with you the way EHG has tried to “innovate” on their monetisation doesnt look or feel good.

On specific points:

  • I have always felt that LE being Buy to Play is a mistake. For LE to remain viable as an ongoing game service, EHG knows the box price means very little in sustaining the game - it is ALL about the MTX (imo). Yet, all the box price did was create an anchoring bias to put off potential MTX purchases. There has been so many posts referencing LE MTX and people saying XXX MTX cost as much as LE box price, or YYY MTX is 70% of LE box price which they think is ridiculous. People may whine about the general cost of POE MTX, but NOBODY ever made the argument that POE is free and all it’s MTX are infinitely more expensive than the base game! I think this lack of baseline price reference for POE had played to its pricing advantage.
  • I understand what they are trying to do by “un-tiering” the support packs. But as you highlighted, and many others have, maintaining tiered pricing for the packs doesnt make sense psychologically to many people. EHG has explained that even if aesthetics is subjective, there is a general sense of what is perceived as “more grandiose” than the other. In fact, POE does the same too - people would typically agree that their $480 exclusive mtx are more premium than say, their $240 ones. BUT there certainly have been instances where there are significant views that the $240 pack, or even the $160 one, looks better than the top tier $480 pack. Still, no one would necessarily complain about the price as they might do in LE, because the $480 pack objectively contains more mtxes than previous tiers.

I hope EHG will take these feedback and rethink where they might think their innovations in monetisation as being more consumer friendly. Because as is, the general sentiments I am seeing is more negative than positive.

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This kind of language and mindset disgusts me to my core. We are human beings, not a gold vein to be manipulated and extracted.

& PoE’s MTX pricing is unconscionable.

This is my opinion and it’s not changing, you’re free to have your own.

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I agree mostly with this. I think they should just create their ‘tiers’ with built-in choices. Like Tier 1, you get four items and but you can choose 1 of them. Tier 2: 4 items but choose 2 of them.

That way you’re still opting for the tiered packs, (more financial support) but your giving someone a better opp to go with the aesthetic they want?

Just a spit ball but I looked closer at the portal and the capes/cloaks in all of the new ones and none of them interest me. They’re all REALLY flashy and I’m a real, gritty grind sort of person (the only one I bought today was that ratty wildlands cloak :joy:).

EDIT: Actually let me take that back slightly. I actually do kinda like the Reaper Tier, but I don’t love it. For 40 bucks, I really want something I’ll love.

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Pretty fair post which covers a lot of my own views on the subject too. LE having that $35 initial buy-in will absolutely be more harmful in the long run since it gives users a sense that any further transactions, cosmetic or otherwise, are simply the developers being greedy.

My belief is that Path of Exile isn’t an actual free game. It’s a free trial game. You can download it and play the campaign for a bit to find out if you enjoy the gameplay, then you buy stashes. Then and only then have you actually gained full access to what the game has to offer.

You can technically play PoE without buying a single stash unlockable, but you can also beat Dark Souls with a driving wheel controller. Doesn’t mean you should or that you should expect that of everyone. The experience was catered to buying stashes, at the very least.

If Last Epoch on 1.0 announces a full free-to-play launch they’d have much more success I think. Give some cool specialized cosmetics and some extra EP points to those who have paid already as compensation, and you’d be able to draw in a larger audience and people wouldn’t be so keen to scream about anchoring or predatory behaviors with the shops.

I have over 500 hours in Last Epoch so far – so today I threw $100 into cosmetics as a way of showing my appreciation and support – I do not feel like I got my moneys worth in cosmetics, but I’m able to just ignore that thought because I’m supporting a company I want to succeed.

It’s not that the cosmetics are particularly ugly, it’s just a bit lackluster for the price. I paid $50 and $40 alone for two of the supporter packs and got 6 cosmetic items in total from a $90 bill.

If I had gotten all 12 cosmetics for say $50 or even the $90 I spent, I’d feel better about it.

Keep in mind I’m absolutely not the only one who has paid more for cosmetics today than have spent in total on the game prior. The real money is 100% in cosmetics/MTX.

People will spend a shocking amount of money on games like this (just look at PoE’s nearly $500 packs) you just have to make them feel that it’s worth it. I know the current MTX shop is lackluster in variety, but to make up for the lack of options to choose from they should’ve adjusted the prices so you feel more rewarded for buying what’s available.

Will I buy the next supporter pack after the current ones are cycled out? Not if they keep the same pricing → value.

I want to support EHG and buy more cosmetic skins as thanks, but with my now total of $135 given, I don’t have to feel guilty about playing this game for hundreds of hours without giving back. That’s the price of 2 AAA titles.

I actually really wanted the $30 pack for the portal and cape, but like you noted on Jerle, my brain was yelling at me to buy the higher pack as a sort of status symbol, which is dumb and a bit screwed up if I’m gonna be honest. People like that (like me, really) do exist. It doesn’t feel that good lmao.

LE is still young, all in all. It has room to grow and evolve. I do not think it’s too late to change certain things such as a buy-in price or the price of cosmetics and supporter packs.

Also splitting the armor cosmetic up into pieces so it looks cheaper than it actually is sucks. Now that’s predatory. That’s a $35 armor skin split into pieces of $5 and $10 so it gives the illusion of being priced the same as capes and portals, but in reality it’s a $35 armor set.

Should honestly like reimburse people who bought the set like 200 EP lmao, that pricing is absolute dogshit and exactly what people were angry about with the $20 portal.

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I expected some folks to react this way :sweat_smile: but I dont have better language to frame it at the moment - and I was basically referring to myself :stuck_out_tongue: The fact of the matter is the underlying economics is true however we frame it. Still, I understand and respect your opinion on this.

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There’s only a few reasons I wouldn’t want EHG to go the F2P route; One is because it’s a little toxic in terms of there being no gate on the front door for things like currency farming and trolls who pump garbage into the chat box. The other is, if the game itself isn’t the product then the cosmetics and other features in the game actually are, and there’s no way core content will get worked on as hard or come out as frequently as those things. Moreover, the game will never end meaning we’ll never get sequels; at least, we’ll never get sequels that feel like sequels that come out in 4, 5, 6 years when it feels like it’s time for there to be one. This is partially because there is a reluctance to invalidate the content in the previous game that people paid through the nose for, because the game was dished out piecemeal one MTX item at a time.

I know it’s a disfavored model at the moment, but all in all, I’d rather play a full price game where I pay once and get (most) things, so the game and the experiences in the game are what the devs are focused on selling to people.

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Totally agree with your post, @Nevieth

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Totally respect your opinion, but all I really have to say is - PoE. A lot of us here have it been playing it for years, and as I am sure you are aware of, follows the same principles Jerle mentioned. At some point, I feel LE will need to go free to play if the devs desire relevancy, it is just how the gaming landscape in now.

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Assassin’s Creed, Rocket League, PUBG, Darktide, Diablo 4… that are all games with a box price + MTX store.

Id gladly pay a box price if it means I don’t have to pay for convenience or 60€$ for a skin to keep the game alive.

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Dont know anything about AC, but all the others have an install base in the millions. Diablo 4 will sell a couple million units at launch by its name alone. LE does not have this luxury, it is a new IP by a small indie company. They need a way to get people into the echo system.

I have payed less than a new AAA in PoE, and I have enough stash space, including every league mechanic, to last a life time. I have also got a couple thousand hours to shoot. For a game like LE, all it takes is a couple whales, but when you are a new ip with little relative reach, you need a way to get someone who is a potential whale to play your game.

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Well yeah, you can use Exalted items to make Uniques into Legendaries, so they’re valuable to many more builds than Set items.

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Yeah and the fact you get unlimited stash tabs and decent looking characters in LE without needing to spend money anyway, to put it into perspective ive spent maybe $400 on PoE over 10 years, apart from new char slots I am forced to buy now I havent made a purchase in nearly 4 years of anything. PoE have been giving out free MTX for a while from challenges and I always complete 40 so I get them all and they are really good now

Ive played Torchlight for 3 seasons since November 2022 and its free and ive probably spent more on it than LE now because they lock nice things behind a season pass such as new character classes available forever but exclusive that season, later they become ‘free’ and a better loot pet

I also bought the ‘Super Overpowered D4’ edition and played into their game of buying into early access, no way im missing out on that

No intention of buying LE MTX however I would be fine with them locking new classes behind paywalls if we actually got them or a pet that picks up shards for me. Lets be real you guys want my money and I only want to hand it over when I genuinely feel like im getting something in return

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Yip. It may not be everyones cup of tea, but capitalism isnt pretty most of the time and with a worldwide player base from varied socio-economic backgrounds & cultures there will always be polarised views when you use phrases that expose hard truths.

Personally, your statement is totally acceptable to me because I understand it and have lived in an environment where that is normal for any business trying to be successful.

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That’s economy 101. We are just gold veins for the coorperations :smiley: .

On the matter at hand… With the procong as it is I’ll buy 0 stuff from the shop. I have more entertaining ways to waste money like lighting a 50€ note to light up the gas stove to make some tea.

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I’m not following your logic… Individual cosmetics seem cheap to me, and the supporter packs should not be scrutinized for pricing. They are for SUPPORTERS, these packs are fundamentally for people who want to give more money to EHG for further development. There’s really no good argument against Supporter Packs or their pricing, because they aren’t meant to be cheap, or even necessarily a good value… Supporter Packs are for people who A. Want to give money to EHG because they like the game, or B. People who really like the look of something in the pack.

The Soul Eater armor set is free if you have had the game for a certain amount of time… My copy of LE came with 350 Epoch Points, so I was allowed to buy Soul Eater for FREE. I personally think the MTX store is priced very well, and cheaply.

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" LE having that $35 initial buy-in will absolutely be more harmful in the long run since it gives users a sense that any further transactions, cosmetic or otherwise, are simply the developers being greedy."

How? I don’t think their greedy, did you see how they posted the MTX Store details, and the entire comments section was OUTRAGE at the price-models and currency exchange? Then the next day EHG revised the entire MTX store and dropped the prices?

This is a $35 game with cheap MTX cosmetics… I do not see 1 gram of greed in EHG practices. They have 100% more integrity than the AAA studios.

I dont think they’re greedy at all.
How specifically would them recieving money for their game be “harmful in the long run” - that sounds ridiculous.

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And I’m not following yours. You really think that $10 for a single chestpiece, or cape, or whatever is cheap? Because it seems pretty overpriced to me, especially for a game that already has a $35 buy in fee.

Oh believe me, I would love to buy a supporter pack to help finance the game’s future development. But at the moment, I can not in good faith do so without feeling like I am getting shafted in some way. Regardless on how you feel about “Just giving money to support the game”, the fact is, the supporter packs are still a product, and products should, in my opinion, reflect the value of their prices in some way. The current supporter packs do not, not even close.

I’m glad you were able to get the armor set you wanted without spending any extra money. But think for a moment about future players who may buy the game at full price, maybe after 1.0 launch. IIRC, and you’re free to link something that proves me wrong (I would appreciate it, actually) the coins that you and I have on our account right now were from buying into the game before the multiplayer launch (It was part of the old supporter packs), and there are no plans to include coins with future purchases of the base game. I’m hoping someone who bought the game after that can chime in here weather or not you get any for buying the game currently. But even if they do, just because they throw you a small bone for buying the game doesn’t make these prices any more justifiable in my opinion.

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