Mid-Cycle Balance Survey Recap

[Airowird]

@WaixYc

I apologize, but apparently you think I’m complaining about issues regarding warlocks. But I was discussing the so called bug about the range of exploding crossbow. And this ambiguous stat has never been mentioned as a problem with it before.

I only used it as an example really, the philosophy should be the same for all bugs. And I would call that specific one a bug, because the stat is “Area size increase” and not “Radius increase”. It would be inconsistent to work differently for a single skill or effect when it is not worded differently.

On the subject of development, I also work in programming pos. If the algorithm doesn’t meet my expectations, first of all this concerns a testing issue. I don’t really know their workflow, but personally, test data and scenarios are iterative. If there is a problem with the code that goes live, then it is one of us that has a problem, not the client’s responsibility. The average user cannot see the underlying logic of the code, he only learns about the inputs and outputs. Unless the output side is completely out of common sense (like warlock’s ward), they will just refer to those patterns to customize their strategies accordingly. So in the final analysis I don’t see their solution to the impact of these issues on both sides (with or without the players involved in the bugs). I think they default to the fact that the players who used the bugs are not innocent, and only go for the players who were not involved in the bugs. In fact it’s likely that both sides are just playing the game in a usual way.

Except they promised the client it was gonna work a certain way, but it doesn’t. You’re right, it doesn’t matter to the client how it works, just that they deliver what is promised, and well, the Ballista Explosion Area scaling just doesn’t do that.

Finally, on the subject of translation. I realize that it may be difficult for players in English-speaking environments to understand, but a lot of translations in our language convey very different meanings than the English text. According to EHG, they uploaded some machine-translated text to the database by mistake, which caused this part of the problem. But in fact this is another developer issue, not a player issue.

That is indeed a company issue, but a communication one, not a coding one. The code is still gonna be written in the same language, no matter what you use in your job, right? My argument here shouldn’t change whether I write it English, French, German, whatever language you speak or even in Klingon for that matter. Especially not in this case, because the underlying idea is surface area instead of radius, and that’s just mathematics, not spoken language. (My primary language is not English either, btw)

I’m saying all this because I don’t really know if my favorite bd is involved in bugs or not. so far I like the game even if he has a lot of irritating bugs. i just wish dev could pay more attention to the player’s feelings instead of making hasty decisions. They could have fixed the problems in a better way.

Why would them delay fixing bugs to 1.1 matter? You still wouldn’t know if something is a bug or not, right? So without looking at any build guides or whatnot in 1.1, you’ld still base your next build on the info you have now, right? The only way for you to know would be to come to the forums and look it up. On that part, I do think EHG need to maintain a “known bugs” list better so you can find it easily, but other than that, the patch notes aren’t available in the game/Steam until 1.1 goes live.

And I think this survey showed that they do care about player’s feelings. Their initial stance was that they wouldn’t change things, and a large majority of responses was negative to that stance. The votes on “warn us first” also shows that in case that does happen, they should give players a heads-up that a mechanic is broken and will be fixed soon. How long that “soon” should be is, imho, a different topic than this.

[Macknum]

@WaixYc

And this ambiguous stat has never been mentioned as a problem with it before.

I asked my friend who played this build from the start of 1.0 of if this is for real having those AoE effects killing the whole screen. So this wasn’t mentioned to you or widespread but at least I feel sane again because those AoE effects very comedicly large.

[Aschere]

Logged in to find out my build was dead today.

Frustrating since I literally waited for you guys to say “we won’t fix bugs that nerf builds until the end of the cycle” before committing and crafting my gear for the build.

It would be one thing if you fixed it with a warning. But you instead did the exact opposite of what you said. In a mostly single player game. If you’re going to say something, stick to your guns.

To make matters worse, you did NOT fix the bone curse bug on minion health intelligence scaling. So you fix the bug that is making part of it overpowered, but don’t fix the bug that is making part of it underpowered.

Very frustrating.

[SAimNE]

Thats because they have no issue with buffing underperforming skills, and will likely do so without worry of backlash so long as they can figure out a way that will have minimal impact on other synergy skills.

[Macknum]

Their endgame goal is 300C if they buff anything it would be a bad joke.

[SAimNE]

There was widespread backlash from that decision, this is just them listening to community feedback. Also there was warning, they actually made a post like 4 days ago saying a nerf would be coming.

Sorry for the gear loss, but the build should still work, it just wont be unstoppable.

[SAimNE]

I meant severely underperforming, and as a hypothetical. Tbh ive never had a skill i couldnt manage to make a build around. Some may not have been fun or easy, but all of them pulled off empowered eventually. Everything from shield throw builds to a current focus mage build to a no pets beast master.

Imo if a skill is currently “severely” underperforming then the person just hasnt thought about it enough to make it work.

[Macknum]

@SAimNE

There was widespread backlash from that decision, this is just them listening to community feedback

Where? Playernumbers are stable and for every negative post i read 3-5 positive ones. D4 had a widespread backlash LE only have some people who cry about not beeing completely stupid op anymore.

@SAimNE

Imo if a skill is currently “severely” underperforming then the person just hasnt thought about it enough to make it work.

That’s highly depending on the person. Some people act like it’s the end of the world they can’t run 2k+ corruption anymore others think everything under 1k is underperforming and EHG aims for 300C so everything right now is highly overperforming .

[SAimNE]

From the 70% of people who did want it nerfed mostly.

The poll kinda backs up my view that there were more complaints than compliments for the decision to not patch balance breaking bugs.

[Macknum]

Patching bugs>intentionaly leaving bugs ingame and ignoring them. That’s just my point of view ^^. I would’ve instantly dropped LE like a hot potato if they left bugs ingame intentionaly.

[SAimNE]

That particular backlash comment was a reply to someone who asked why they nerfed the bugs despite saying they wouldn’t.

So yeah your opinion is the exact backlash i meant, and tbh its understandable. If i ever stumbled in a god build and it couldnt make the charts because it was flooded with 1 button bug builds… i would be a bit annoyed.

[Macknum]

I’m not annoyed at all. I would simply deem the dev team unable to make common sense descissions and would be gone. No annoyence anger or whatever. There is a reason why LE is the last EA/Kickstarter game I ever gave my money. As soon as games storll away from common sense to not hurt some players feelings who exploit stuff then I’m out ^^. Easy as that.

[SAimNE]

Imo, even though i personally want them nerfed, i don’t think leaving them be is a “wrong” decision. Its simply a different value system. Some people want the seasons to operate in a perfect bubble. Any intervention whether it helps or hurts is a sabotage of the natural unfolding of the season in their opinion

Those people are a minority, and i dont personally share that view, however i dont think of it as totally incomprehensible to think that way.

[Macknum]

@SAimNE

Those people are a minority, and i dont personally share that view, however i dont think of it as totally incomprehensible to think that way.

I understand their point of view as well but I find no political correct words to explain how silly I thin their oppinion on this matter is.

[Izrahfil]

I just want to chime in here and say that there are some really ignorant things in this post, and this is not to be negative but just the way the English language works.

There is this common position among players to “never nerf something, and only buff things”. As designers we know how impractical and insane this position is. Not to mention that such a position leads to a worse situation later on. Nerfs are a healthy part of the gaming experience.

I would also add to EHG, that on professional level retention rates are important. In time you will grow in your knowledge and learn that having to shift people from spec to spec will result in higher retention rates. A lot of you have anti-d4 positions, but the truth at the end of the day is that experienced blizzard designers are miles ahead of anyone else (because of understanding things like this). This is why d4 has millions of players, will continue to have millions of players, while LE does not.

I hope you take this reply with maturity and an open mind. I fear that it ignores and becomes part of the endless cycle of Nieve ignorant positions.

[Domtoretto]

All this talk about over performing skills, what about the underperforming classes such as forge guard?

You could literally have a full party of forge guards and will still do less damage than 1 warlock right now.

It needs a desperate rework, I understand it will take some time but at least give it a mid season buff for now? Having the 2h + shield bug actually made it a little more playable ever since it’s removed it went from almost unplayable to uninstall.

[Handler-1]

I can tell you are a honest decent soul. But here is the crucial fact. No one cares. If one truely cares about gaming experience or build diversity, then over and under outliers are equally importance statisticallly, obviously. But why not, because this is not about gaming experience or build diversity. Because, people envy the top 1%. All the problems were caused by the top 1%. They took 90% of the attention from the gaming community. So they got “fixed”.

Or you can also look at this problem from a statistical way. it’s not a normal distribution, where the focus is on the two ends. It’s a log-normal distribution, or a power law distribution, where the focus is the top x%.

BTW, I want build diversity as the ultimate goal to persue. So I agree with you. If there ever was attention, both sides would get equal attention.

[F0lk]

@Izrahfil

A lot of you have anti-d4 positions, but the truth at the end of the day is that experienced blizzard designers are miles ahead of anyone else (because of understanding things like this)

Right, they’re so much better… They understand it so much they made most of their content creators just quit and make campaigns against the game until they minimally resolved their issues. Yeah right… While playing and having a blast in LE.

@Izrahfil

This is why d4 has millions of players, will continue to have millions of players, while LE does not.

Seriously? Sure it’s not because of the huge amount of revenue put into advertising it… Did you see what they did to a Church? Or the trains? Or the movie theaters? Oh well… Poor EHG, can’t paint their monsters in churches to get people’s attention.

[Izrahfil]

@F0lk

Yeah right… While playing and having a blast in LE.

Your opinion, and its shared by 200 concurrent players in le, one that millions in d4 dont agree with. Itt is what it is.

@F0lk

Sure it’s not because of the huge amount of revenue put into advertising it

Diablo 4 is one of the most successful franchises to exist. It really does not need advertisement, but it still gets it. There are good and bad things in each type of company (aaa vs indi). EHG has the advantage of “creative control” over their game where d4 does not. D4 has the advantage of being a game played by millions, where LE Does not. There is wax and wane. Each has their advantage and disadvantage.

[Maureeseeo]

It’s nice to see my opinions echoed.