Yeah but potions can be used on any build, you get a really great belt with those stats it can be used pretty flexibly.
1 Like
Yup, that’s a good idea, chill also slows down the aoe channel.
The slow is only applied the first time he does his aoe.
1 Like
I absolutly agree that lunge should be usable without a target. Shield Bash is not really an option because it requieres you to have a shield equipped. and specializing a skill just to get the required mobility in the game seems not really balanced in comparism to other classes.
And yeah sentinel has some really good stuff to avoid damage, like Rebuke or Volitale Reversal
but there are plenty of reasons why they wont really work well in endgame boss fights.
But honestly, the game is designed around dodging telepgraphs and do certain mechanics in a boss fight, like PoE. So as long as you can’t facetank everything in the game you need a reliable mobility because this is actually the only way to bring proper skill play in an ARPG.
And I don’t really get all the arguments here. Of course there are alot options to mitgate damage, remove debuffs or modifiers that will help you alot against certain bosses.
But you know every class can benefit from that, not only the sentinel. So it’s not really a valid argument why the sentinel doesn’t need a decent movement skill because every other class can have these advantages. It doesn’t explain why the sentinel has to equip a shitty unique or specilize a skill to get the fundation of mobility that the game is build around.
That will only make the sentinel less attractive and more a pain in the a** to build and to play.
Melee builds are like always, way harder to play than ranged or minion builds. And ppl here are talking about using rebuke or get a unique helmet and that movement skills are not necessary in boss fights while they probably play only meta builds.
OF COURSE it’s not necessary. But it helps alot dude.
And no you don’t homogenize all classes by giving them a reliable movement skill no you actually give the players more opportunities to play different playstyle because you can rely more on your skill instead of forced tankiness or certain stats.
So imo by removing the target requirement of lunge the sentinel would be much more enjoyable and would give the players more opportunities to create different builds that relies more on skill play rather than just min maxing your tankiness.
1 Like
I would be okay with lunge needing a target if sentinel had way more damage mitigation stuff for the end game.
1 Like
The Sentinel is completely glass cannon, it’s not like they can get shields/block, generic % damage mitigation, leech, massive amounts of armour, endurance, loads of heals, life on hit, probably the best DR in the game (80% DR on Rebuke, even though it’s not my cup of tea), invulnerability while using Lunge.
2 Likes
Yet you still can get oneshot by all sorts of end game monsters full tank…
1 Like
I think thats by design on the part of the devs… they dont want people to just facetank every possible damage no matter how strong a build can be… especially boss/rare damage that is well telegraphed. Lots of thread about this particular topic and lots of input by the devs on that…
That’s the exact point. You can never become so tanky that damage is irrelevant, THUS mobility is important. Mobility <> Tank are not acceptable trade offs when mobility reduces damage by 100% and Tank only reduces it by 99% but the 1% that gets through is enough to kill you.
If you are going to have 1 shot mechanics in the game, then a baseline mobility needs to be present. Sentinel is literally the only class that lacks the baseline mobility other classes have. The supposed reason is that they’re “Tankier”. Firstly I doubt that they’re actually tankier, given that my lich Acolyte is far and away my tankiest character. Secondly the above demonstrably false equivalency of mobility to tankiness.
So the design choice is to have spells and abilities that can one shot characters despite how tanky they are, but the character class choice is to gate its mobility to specific items or abilities despite every other class not being gated in this way?
and the response to that is " well they are tanky". No, they aren’t, its a design choice to have one shots be possible by bosses, so it goes in hand that classes should have mobility to dodge them.
Yup.
Afaik there isn’t an official dev response “well they’re tanky”.
I agree with you and Thesiobhan about making sure that classes have mobility to be able to avoid the design choice of one shots… thats a given and makes perfect sense and if there are classes with issues then those should be corrected - no doubt or argument there whatsoever…
However… While its true that EoC was the first boss that killed me in LE way back when I started, I dont feel that the issue of mobilty is as bad as you guys/gals/they are experiencing… Honestly, I dont… I dont think that Lunge must have a target as an option (beyond the unique that gives it)… I have beaten EoC on many characters since, sentinels included and having a movement skill is not always part of the solution. Even Julra the dungeon boss benefits from a movement skill but I have managed to beat her without one, just careful planning, lots of tries and a decent set of boots. Sometimes its easier, sometimes harder but still possible… and yes, it can be frustrating but I personally like the challenge and I have a philosophy of trying to do things in the way that the game intends / within the game parameters rather than allowing myself to get frustrated when the way I want to do something doesnt work/work as well… If i could never defeat EoC or Julra no matter how hard i tried, then yes… I would consider it a problem but so far nothing EHG has included in LE has proven to be too hard to do… eventually…
I think the question ultimately comes down to a few things.
Is the game supposed to be skill based? If so, then I require the correct tools for skillful play. (I literally run out of EOC as soon as it appears and get clipped pretty frequently depending on where I’ve had to position due to death pools or other mechanics) Once you get to monoliths the game becomes semi-hardcore in the awful way of say Heist from poe. If I die, I lose the point of that node. Thus never dying is the correct way to play, thus it should be possible to never die. I am religious about running out of large aoe telegraphs, and yet sometimes I simply do not make it, even with about +30% Ms on boots. Is this visual lag? Is this something else? I don’t know.
If the game is not supposed to be skillful in its play then clearly it’s supposed to be skillful in character building. You should be able to build a character to survive all mechanics while maintaining enough damage to complete fights. This is fundamentally at odds with the concept of 1 shot mechanics, as well as the Devs view that you should not “complete” a character with full BIS gear (re: Legendary blog post).
I feel like the game is intended to be played with a minimum threshold of build viability (character building) then supplemented by player skill. IE Moving out of giant telegraphs. Thus the tools for that playstyle should be readily available, and it’s glaringly obvious that one class has those tools but they require significantly more opportunity cost than the rest of the classes.
Case in point I’ve never found that unique helm, so am I just SOL til I do? I don’t have a place in my build to put shield charge as a specialized skill just to run out of telegraphs. I already have as much move speed on my boots as I can get. What else do I need to do as a sentinel that I don’t need to do as any other class, and what am I getting in return for having to do extra work or use extra affixes/gear?
It takes three points in Shield Rush to make it usable without a shield. By level 100, your minimum skill level is much higher than 3 points, so it practically has no investment. One of the most popular VK builds literally has Shield Rush in the title and they’re using 2H staves. So what you guys are really asking for is that Sentinel gets two mobility skills. Three, if you count Volatile Reversal, which is debatable.
Look, I loved Lunge too, but its target requirement is a reasonable design choice because Shield Rush exists. Removing Lunge’s target requirement would result in redundant skills for that class. The only way I can see that working is if they redesign Lunge and Shield Rush so that each fills specific damage archetypes and utilities moreso than they currently do.
…
…
…
…
Man you might almost have a valid point if there weren’t a limited number of skills you could specialize in, ALMOST.
What? You swap out Lunge for Shield Rush, which was already taking up a specialization slot?
no. No one is specializing in lunge in this discussion. Additionally none of the other classes have to specialize in their movement skill to get this functionality.
Ah, I misunderstood. Carry on, don’t mind me!
NP my dude.
Also it would be acceptable if Shield charge was reworked to be “Charge” and they simply swapped the node that lets you use it without a shield for a bonus for using it with a shield, and made the base functionality usable with any weapon combo.
I could get on board with that design proposition. I love using it for whenever I have to backtrack after hitting a dead end, so making those changes would make the skill feel amazing… but maybe a little OP since the devs really don’t want the game feeling too “zoom-y”? Guess they could add/modify a node that makes it into a channeled skill and the default is more of a dash-type skill.