So I have zero problems farming in a farming game.
Farming for the uniques for your build? No problems.
Farming for the exalteds for your build? No problems.
Farming for the exalteds for you smashing? Small problems.
Farming for the LP on your uniques? Small problems.
Farming for the multiple T7/T6 affixes on your exalteds for smashing? Medium problems.
Smashing your items together and not getting the rolls you wanted because you can’t get a 4LP version of your unique? Pretty big problem.
From what I can tell, it’s about RNG⁶ if it’s at all possible… and each of the above is a pain points for the players.
Sure, you shouldn’t be getting perfect gear quickly, but it seems like it’s just not possible to get it AT ALL… EVER.
There needs to be a way to play enough where you can, with some time/ effort, create a perfect item. Give us ways to upgrade LP levels on items… give us ways to upgrade affixes to max outside of forging potential.
The more I play this game the less I want to use the forge because of all its randomness. Its inconsistent and doesn’t honor a paying players time. I also dont like how the LP system is locked behind a dungeon, its hard enough to find the items without another grind-tax.
I’m in CoF. Too much rng and grind in Last Epoch means that players will probably not come back after the first contact with the game. This can be seen in the statistics. Spending over 100 hours on a character and not having at least an average equipment is a joke. CoF is a garbage collector’s simulation. Upgrading to t6-t7 and lp stats would limit rng. I agree with your idea.
You can have your own opinion, I’m just saying that you’re speaking for everyone when you say:
When people literally put thousands of hours into harder grinds than this. So I was informing you that you’re underestimating an ARPG players dedication to the grind when you say they probably won’t come back.
He’s not saying you can’t have your own opinion on grind & RNG, he’s just saying that, historically, arpg players have often had a relatively high tolerance for grind/RNG.
You might even say that, historically, diablo-clone players actually like grind/RNG. Since that is the basic foundation of the game. Some like more, some less, but the game was founded on a basis of grinding and RNG loot.
I think the more interesting conversation is the one we can’t have - what does the current market support, grind-wise?
The ARPG market has definitely evolved, where is it currently?
I think you’d have to have usage numbers across all the products on the market and the ability/knowledge to interpret that data to have a non-wild-assed-guess opinion. Even then, you’d also need to know a lot about the ‘is it fun’ part of game design to correct for some games being very engaging versus some games being not. If the game is fun enough, just in playing it, people are going to play longer, regardless of the grind.
You have low grind (D4) and high grind (PoE). LE is is a weird spot in this regard where in parts of the game the grind/RNG is as low as D4 and in others it’s higher than in PoE.
Basically, what you have now (since D3 anyway) is a spectrum where players pick the games they like best on it. Games don’t need to cater to specific players, they just have to create their own identity and players that like where it stands will join it.
Just reducing grind to please certain players isn’t a solution, as can be seen by the fact that D3 popularity went down over time and PoE’s went up.
But it’s not even really about the grind. The grind isn’t the real problem… it’s the RNG.
You need to grind for that 3 or 4 LP unique. Okay… now you need to grind for the purple to slam into it… then you need to RNG into the 3 items you really want, and if one of them is the T7, and you don’t get that… you’re screwed and you gotta start all over.
Even if they increased the LP of all items across the board, and you got 4LP more often, you’d still need to grind for the 2 or 3 T6/T7 pieces to slam into them to try to get a “perfect” item… or at least one that’s not half terrible.
The thing is that the legendary system is a “system for the future”. That is, you don’t really need it that much for now. You can do almost everything with 0LP and the things you can’t do you don’t need perfect items yet.
That is why some items are almost impossible to get 4LP right now. Because they’re strong and not needed for the current content.
As more content gets added, I’m sure you’ll get more tools to get the LP and exalted stuff you need. Nemesis was one such step.
I think the problem is crafting. Not only isn’t deterministic, but can easily ‘brick’ the item. And by ‘brick’ I mean take an item that could be a really good upgrade and convert it into something that is not at all an upgrade.
Get a great exalted (multiple T6/T7, another kind of ok affix, and one you need to remove). So you use chaos on the one you need to remove. Now you need to get that one or two out of thirty (yes, exaggeration) affix because the missing affix is critical. Say, health on one of the defensive slots. And it comes up minion armor. It’s just a waste of time.
Or the whole LP system. You aren’t just losing one item, you are losing two. I’m really at a loss as to why it would be so unbalancing to allow slamming with an exalted that had fewer than 4 affixes. It’s like they intentionally built disappointment into their game. Which, I guess they did. That concept seems very strange to me.
But in arpgs the RNG is why you have to grind. In GW2 the high end stuff is (or was when I played it) gated behind high material cost. In LE, PoE, the Diablos, etc it’s gated behind low drop chance. The two concepts are functionally equivalent in that they exist to extend the play time or give people longer term goals of obtaining certain stuff.
One can also try a rune of removal and hope for the best. IF you remove the correct affix, you can have a 100% chance that you will get the correct affixes instead the random of 30.
Depending on the item’s base configuration, this can lead to a drastically improved chance to get what you want.
Rune of Removal:
3 affixes starting point, one prefix you want to be gone. 33% chance to get what you want with rune of removal, then 100% = 33% end result. (if your forging potential does not run out before you finish the item)
Runes of Chaos, assuming your 1:30 for the desired outcome is correct:
1/30 per use of the rune of chaos, up to four tries if you started at lvl 1.
better don’t play games like this
This genre MEAN rng random drop. ARPG is about killing thousands mobs, and drop 1 item which boost your character. ARPG without RNG = diablo 4
i hate the rng in uniques more. i got the starter bow with was it 4th tier fire damage and 5th tier fire penetration? but the base has poor rng and that just makes you angry.
