Name a game where that has successfully been implemented. Maybe there is a reason why it was not done in any notable server authoritative ARPG yet? And the genre is how old in the PC gaming industry?
Did you read the survey…?
Also, I don’t play SSF. I play in groups.
I just completed it and now understood you quoted the survey.
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I wanted trade, but I dont care anymore
The only reason I wanted trade as I dont want to be forced to farm ‘xx’ boss ad nauseum until the unique item I want drops and there is nowhere else to get it as it ONLY drops from ‘xx’ boss
If EHG adds ‘boss currency’ that can be used to trade guaranteed items and Unidentified idols from a vendor after ‘xx’ kills/boss currency spent then the need for trade for me is almost completely removed
Example, timeline boss drops 2 ‘souls’ on kill. A Vendor has fixed timeline boss uniques for sale ie Bhuldars Wrath and the like. Say it costs 30 souls to buy Bhuldars thats 15 kills but I can farm other timeline bosses if I wanted and spend my currency on the hammer
Then you lock this vendor behind Soulfire Bastion Dungeon making players spend key currency and doing the side content to access it
You do something like that and never would I need trade, understand I HATE trading its a waste of time but its a necessity if you have no options to do anything else
As long as theres a good end game loop > Do monoliths > do bosses > spend ‘faux’ currency on only that > repeat
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Oh boy… trade with friends was announced in kickstarter and was of the table suddenly. This is nothing people make up and the shift away from this happend very recently so just stop and bring this one again and again to the table because it’s a flawed argument each time. Everyone who followed LE since Kickstarter was more or less convinced to get this feature because EHG stood strong to almost all descission made back then even when some stuff was removed.
In a game where I play with friends I want to freely interact with friends and I don’t give a F about people outside of this circle of players I play up to 20+ years with. If this isn’t a reasonable wish to be able to interact in meaningfull ways with the people you play coop with then scrap coop alltogheter ^^.
Kind of Yes. Somone said trade isn’t a normal thing in ismoetric hack and slay games, to make it clear an ingame option to get an item from player A to player B somehow, so I did some research. In the past years since D1 there are little online coop hack and slays without the option to trade somehow so it seems like this is a fundamental aspect of almost all isometric hack and slays.
Is this important? Not so much because at the end of the day it’s up to EHG and they offer refunds for people who are pissed about no trade ingame. So if there is no trade everyone can feel free to leave the ship if EHG isn’t changing their mind on this.
Yeah a single player offline game where you trade with yourself makes complete sence as an case against tradeing…
Noone questions what the game genre is there are dozens of examples that are similar and if you compare aplles with apples things are pretty clear.
That’s the real question and this should be answered by the devs asap because at the end of the day it’s in there hands no matter what their descission brings.
Noone did it because it’s a lot more work that need to be paid and kept up and people who want to make money will never do unneeded work even in the expense of players and their QoL.
So you want D3’s Kadala that is locked behind content you need to play to get you normaly get from content that is locked behind other content? That’s strange I pretty much dislike it 
. You could make a “You killed the boss 50 times good job choose a unique you want!” kind of achivement as a failsave that does the same but you still have to play the game for enough time to cover the lack of content.
You are missing the entire point and why it relates back to trade. If I killed a boss/bosses 50 times in a trade setting I would of potentially earned enough currency to buy the item off someone anyway
Not only that with market saturation an item that drops off a boss even 1% of the time can be de-valued to the point its actually almost free to buy in these games so making a player farm for 25 hours for an item worth nothing in a trade setting you have a massive issue for me, the option above is to give the player a way to move on. This is Timeline uniques and Idol Gambling only, you arent going to get ‘global drops’ this way
Kadala was a pure gamble anyway and didnt need to exist. No one asked for Kadala but she was there
Yes if a developer can achieve this and the player is enjoying it as part of a gameplay loop and part of a reward structure then the developer has achieved their goal, instead of ‘no one goes to this dungeon as its worthless’?
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Imo trading always has been a total disaster in Arpgs, but i know people will as usual ask for it, hope they understand it comes with a natural destruction of loot rates.
Trading makes trading almost mandatory for casual/normal players, precisely the ones the most vulnerable to economy, current LE’s main problem for them is you have to rely both on luck and spamming the same monolith again and again while target farming the unique you’re looking for, the rest is reasonnably reachable for everyone.
Imo EHG should focus more on that point and get rid of the few people complaining about almost having to trade system. And even so, imo, it’s not such a massive issue, ARPGs rely on luck, so be it, trading generally sucks anyway.
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Yes, and inflation/manipulation makes a lot of items virtually unavailable to even the semi-casuals. Every. Single. Time.
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No it doesnt, it generally makes them more available and this doom talk regarding economy in these games is utterly ridiculous
I feel the survey is missing a very important nuance - that many players (including myself and most of my friends) would like having a trade system between friends without having a full blown trade economy. Thus I found it very hard to answer the questions in the survey. The questions have no weight attached to them - if I responded negatively to most questions it would seem I am against trade - which is incorrect.
I am fully aware what a full trade economy will do to the game. I don’t want that and my friends don’t want that either. We just want the ability to occasionally swap good items we find with each other. Its the core of having fun with friends and finding loot.
The gifting system announced does that, but it has the limitation of having to be online and in party together. We are busy people with lives, we’ll try to play together as much as we can but live gets in the way more often than not. This restriction is just not good for our enjoyment.
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The game has a core reason to play related to trade/crafting, even with a decreased drop table, that most other games don’t have: affix shards. Every item is worth it, but with a decreased drop rate it gives perfect reason to learn how to use the filter system, play efferently, target-loot certain bases, and use shards to craft, compared to GGG’s “no time = no currency, no craft, no reason to play” v i s i o n.
Progress here is far smoother, and any level of time nets benefits (even if it’s just pooling shards for when you have more time), even if it means you don’t get the end-item you were aiming for in a handful of attempts.
This is a welcomed thread. Indeed looking further for opinions could lead to a solution to (try) satisfy the majority.
I already do the survey and this time, I’ll try to suggest something different that maybe is already mentioned here on the topic/forum.
For me always mentioned that is amazing to be able to sell my valuable “treasure” that I get from a monster/boss/chest reward. Doesn’t mean it needs to be a Rare/Exalted item. Could be crafting materials (or not), keys and other type of miscellaneous items that still doesn’t exist.
I don’t really care to buy the BiS item from other player. I personally like to try to craft gear by myself. I don’t know at what point the rest like to craft and sell good items, but need to take on count that LE have a crafting system that is more deterministic compared with PoE.
EHG says “keeping Last Epoch’s loot system rewarding for solo play”, so basing on this:
- What if we don’t trade equipment, just the rest of the items like keys/crafting materials/others that still doesn’t exist? (I’ll call them Miscellaneous items)
- What if the only equipment items we can trade are the Uniques, with 0 LP and only being able to be traded 1 single time? (so no re-sell value).
- What if EHG from now on, create many “miscellaneous items” so they can be used for trading purposes and have a more diverse drop pool? These miscellaneous items should be items that help the player to “juice” their monoliths in different ways: make events on monoliths appear (PoE example: Delirium, Legion, Blight, etc), NPCs to help you/need your help (PoE example: Alva, Einhar, Niko, Jun), and whatever comes to their minds.
These items will lead the player to get a specific reward they want on a monolith, basically itemize the “Echo Rewards”. The player uses it or sells it if don’t need it.
In this way, the player will search on market for misc. items that will help focus on getting what they want, without directly giving what they want through trade. Players will always need to farm it, but instead of farming a specific item for +100 hours, that time could be reduced thanks to items that help to target your desired item, providing a trading option for players who want an economy system and without being mandatory for solo-players.
Also, the drop rate will never need to be reduced since the equipment will not be tradeable. Crafting materials drop rate shouln’t be touched also.
EDIT: I want to make clear something. Having a market of miscellaneous items doesn’t mean 10 different type of items. I’m talking about a lot of different type of items that change your strategy on your monoliths/dungeons/whatever. I “imagine” a really big market of miscellaneous items.
GGG with PoE itemize many things (example: maps, quality for maps [chisel], rarity of maps [Magic map, rare, unique], change the map [Orb of Horizon, Harbinger’s Orb], etc.), so LE can do the same (not ALL of course), and make that tradeable. The equipment? Depends of our loot, crafting materials and a bit of luck. LE today is not designed to trade equipment between players because the craft is much less RNG than PoE is, that’s why I suggest this time to remove the ability to trade equipment (except Uniques), but create a pool of no-equipment items tradeable. Thoughts?
And that is strictly your opinion. Current games like Torchlight Infinite where they are trying to reign in that manipulation and inflation with a tax beg to differ. I played PoE from Metamorph to Scourge and the market manipulation was constant every league and well documented.
I am logged into Torchlight Infinite right now. I do agree that the good uniques are extremely rare but everything else is abundant. As of right now in TI I have 3200 raw FE and I specifically hunted for big unique drops through rarity - I found a Hunting Butterfly Memory for Erika I sold for 2800FE for example. I crafted all my rares (3x 6T1 pieces) with self found materials and still have thousands more crafting materials
I am thinking of playing my Erika when I hit 100 (99.6) and ill use the 3000+ FE to craft an insane Dagger and buy some real expensive gear as I farmed really hard for it - thats the benefit of playing a lot and getting lucky I can sell things I dont want to fund my current build to then use that to fund another build,
I farmed for 2 weeks in Season 1 to buy Exquisite Box and honestly was really happy when I finally earned enough to use it. Do you not think 2 weeks of solid farming hoarding and selling isnt enough work for 1 item?
Way to prove my point!
Trading items for their market values isnt trade manipulation
In PoE the price of the Exalt/Divine will fluctuate yes and if Mathil makes a build a unique item will skyrocket for a short period but then reduce thats more based on community hype
That isn’t what happens in PoE, you’re being quite disingenuous.
POE is a blatant example of trade economy gone rogue.
Its virtually impossible to drop top tier gear from drop, unless you count some of the fixed uniques like Watcher’s Eye and others. Top tier gear is meticulously crafted with orbs and requires extensive knowledge of affixes and affix chance rates and tricks to come with particular outcomes. Its a top down economy where thousands of scrubs farm like monkeys every day, while flippers and market manipulators buy their orbs, craft the gear and sell for even more profit. The excess orbs eventually go to RMT sites, which eventually deflates the value of orbs even more.
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If you are referring to meta crafting gear where you are aiming for 6x T1 then yes you will spend a fortune
But mid tier crafting isnt anywhere near that. I spent 8 Divines crafting an Int Stacker Wand in Sanctum, and I missed the Aisling twice and failed to hit the prefix. If I did hit that prefix it would of been a 45 Divine wand instead of 8. I could of restarted the process all for 8% pen of just used it. I used it. I also crafted all my Int stacker gear with fractured bases and Essences/Exalts. Why is it a bad thing to know how % of numbers work in relation to crafts? its just maths
Also crafted my Bow on my Artillery Scion. Just spam Anger Essences until you hit T1 attack speed and T2cold/lightning then annul and multi mod and thats it, end game bow done to do all content
Some PoE players dont accept that imperfect Wand and will start the whole process again, typical GGG nature being not that bad to get 4-5 affixes but to get 6 will cost you everything unless you get insanely lucky. Thats why mirror tier items are created so people can just buy perfection if they have the budget
The game absolutely bombards you nowadays with crafting materials and options to make really ‘good’ gear
edit; Imagine for a moment the developers of LE ‘allowed’ players a way to obtain 4x T8 rares with perfect 100% rolls - basically hacked gear what would be the relevent time investment for this? because gear of this level exists in poe temporary trade leagues after less than 5 weeks of playing
Now please go again through whatever you just wrote and tell me - did you realize when you stopped playing an ARPG where loot drops were exciting? Nowadays POE is literally a farming simulator. Kind of similar to classical chineese gold farmers in WOW, except instead of feeding the family you do it to progress further in difficult content.
You literally farm orbs and feed them into a slot machine. Except you also need to spend several hours learning how to pull the lever as well.
It is not bad having fun this way. Having fun is never bad and a lot of people enjoy POE. I enjoyed POE too, before things got out of control. But POE already exists and a lot of people like the excitement of getting their valuable items drop from monsters instead.
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