No. We have clearly stated that these are two different splits. Please stop conflating the two.
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This is an interesting comment. I’m not criticizing but to be clear, YOU are there to farm. Myself and many other players, we may or may not be. Everyone wants and gets different things out of these HnS games.
I guess my question is without any sort of larger community interaction (with Trade being the one in discussion), why does it matter what the drop rates are or who can give what to whom and under what circumstances? Aside from the small percentage of players who may be fighting to show off on the leaderboards, I don’t see a reason to not allow players to play the game they want to. I suppose that’s what mods are for?
I think ultimately EHG needs to take a step back and figure out if they want an MMO type of experience, or something more like Grim Dawn. If it’s the former, some form of greater community trade interaction is pretty much a necessity by definition. Otherwise the only interaction is…? Chatting with each other? If it’s more like a single player Grim Dawn experience, then why not just let it be player’s choice if and how they want to trade and interact, because it really doesn’t matter. I honestly don’t care if every other player has “ePeen of Godlike Peen” and can run all monos in 1 second, as a more or less casual player, it doesn’t impact my experience in the least in a case where there is no trade economy. So yes, give me good drop rates AND open trade, who is getting hurt in a game where my actions and gameplay don’t affect another player’s?
The ones that just wanted to see the results I count as not participating in the survey. Now where the comparison can be drawn is whether you count the ones that still want the limited anonymous trade, as described in the Bazaar concept, with the ones that want just gifting, or if you count them with those that want some form of open trade. My opinion is that they more closely align with gifting than with open trade. This is all of course keeping in mind that there are actually no sides here. There is no question that many want trade of some form, and that gifting and trade are not mutually exclusive.
I am not talking on the percent of people that doesn’t want trade, (we all know there’s plenty of people on both sides) but the ones who want it. I am only speculating most of them (the ones that want trade) also don’t want a loot reduction. This is asked repeatedly on the EHG survey. . Because, again, people want everything.
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Hi! I thought the survey was attempting to find what levels of trade would be acceptable to the playerbase? Am I incorrect in thinking this?
Kinda, it was more about answering individual specific questions about trade. Like, if we did x, how would people feel about that. The preface to the survey was really important to read and I have a feeling that it was a little too long so quite a few just skipped it.
I think it was easy to fall into the trap of trying to figure out trade plans from the questions being asked. Like, we want to do x, so let’s see how people feel about that. It was really about collecting broad data about people’s feelings towards trade so we could design a system that would be more appropriate.
Edit:
I also want to add that it wasn’t about trying to find “the line” for how far anti-trade people would be willing to bend.
We talked a bit about it on stream on Friday. Andrew Tilley posted a transcription, with links, today that you can read if you want more info too.
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Or the trade people 
People sometimes have a natural inclination to try to infer or attribute motivations, rather than taking things as they are.
Hopefully most people treated it as a survey, not the Rosetta Stone of trade decisions.
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While the survey doesn’t address who does and doesn’t want trade and who wouldn’t buy the game if it wasn’t what they wanted. I’d be curious how such a divide would(could) be measured. It’s actually a fairly important decision business wise.
Anyway, the most interesting idea that has popped up from the discussion is making certain drops/upgrades more deterministic by using a token system. Where the tokens are collected only by playing and turning them in doesn’t guarantee rolls and such. They would at least provide an incentive to keep trying to upgrade certain gear slots in a way pure RNG does not. It just can’t be as prevalent as it is in D3 with crafting and rerolling items.
I am also warming to D4’s plan to allow the trading of item bases but not anything better. Last Epoch could do that as well if the devs chose to.
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Thank you for the reply and to Andrew TIlley for doing transcripts! (fr ty so very much for these!)
Personally, I am still very confused about if trade is coming or not. Even in the stream transcript:
" Q: Will you guys add trade?
Mike: We’re still digesting information from the survey we sent out, if we want to or not, what that’s going to look like…"
I am super confused? I understand not trying to be specific due to the many unknowns, but is there going to be some form of trade added after the 0.9 release? EHG released a previous statement which said there would be no trade, only gifting. EHG has also stated in previous statements there would be trade, a bazaar, etc.
Are you able to give us some kind of clear answer if trade will be in the game in 1.0? I do understand it is all up in the air currently, but this is all super confusing to anyone that doesn’t live on the forums keeping up with everything.
If there was just a simple yes or no, that would do miracles to clear up the muddy water. Everyone thinks you’re going to do this or that, and in the end there is still no official answer than ‘maybe, maybe not’.
Also, how effective was the survey? Was there multiple votes from the same IP, for example? Could a bot have influenced it in any way? Why change from the original ‘bazaar’ idea and totally scrap all forms of ‘stranger trade’ (sorry couldn’t think of a better term lol). What percentage of LE owners actually filled the thing out?
Personally, I bought copies of this game because I like multiplayer worlds where there is interaction between different people in different aspects. If an item dropped and it was decent, why can’t I give it to a new player? What if I start some cheesy guild and want to give items to guildmates? (not asking for a guild system lol) Why would I be forced to add people to my friendlist just to ‘gift’ them? Doesn’t this only encourage workarounds for abusing the gifting system? Doesn’t that make the title ‘friendlist’ more like ‘tradelist’?
Why does it have to be this complicated economy in the first place? Why can’t I trade an item to a random stranger?
EDIT: sorry juggling this between work and I forgot to press the reply button so I deleted previous post
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Short version tonight.
I have a feeling that some information has gone through a game of telephone and been slightly altered.
We recently announced that the 0.9 patch would have gifting only. We talked a lot about our priorities for finding loot out in the game as a fun and viable way to play. This unfortunately got repeated as “no trade” quite a lot. The 0.9 gifting announcement post has more detailed info on 0.9.
Details on what the game will launch with are not available yet. It is still being designed. The survey was one method of feedback we are using. I can’t share the results of the survey.
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Don’t worry, I read everything and still have no idea why there is so much fuss for what is just one patch amongst others. 
Nobody knows for sure (very probably including the devs).
Personally I have always been convinced that there will be someday, but that’s just my feeling.
And obviously I don’t know what form it will take, nor with which patch number it will come.
But EHG has stated many times that they are still open to any ideas and willing to consider new paths, so yeah, my money is that sooner or later there will be something.
Very well said, people understood for some reason there was no future option for trade after the long statement about how EHG want to items found be the core of the progression/excitement.
Not wanting another game about currency and efficiency over the joy of finding and crafting upgrades is just great, give to many of the players high hope for the future of the game.
Is also somewhat hard to understand that the game doesn’t have a fixed secret plan to 1.0 down to every detail, other than the features outlined by EHG that they were comfortable enough to tell us (finishing the remaining classes and the game story).
Sadly this is how many people’s mind work. If tomorrow EHG comes up with an experimental trade system and tell us is just an experiment and will be on in the next official patch so people can play with it and give feedback, we will have a crap load of people that will understand that the “experiment” is definitively how trade will look like in LE release.
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And that’s exactly what gifting in 0.9 really is, an experiment. I’ve had many people report that their opinion of gifting only has changed (both ways) since playing with it in the preview events. It’s really hard to give feedback on a system you haven’t played with.
Having said that, it’s not about wanting to avoid the currency and trading elements but rather enable the discovery and hunting elements. In a magical land of gumdrops and jellybeans, if both could coexist in a system where people can trade if they want to but not need to if they don’t (and still play together), that would be pretty cool too. Not saying this is even possible or that we will ever try to do it.
We have many goals for these systems and we have to prioritize and design to hit as many as we can.
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I mean I get where your coming from, but this is sorta just a given.
Its one of those genie in a bottle situations. its very easy to give more of what you already feel is okay if you want to add some more, but its almost impossible to take away something that has been given. it being a “Beta” is really no excuse.
if they launched a patch with full trading as an experiment then took it away the next and said “sorry that didnt work out” it literally would shatter faith in the devs, and the game would quickly become a cesspool of screaming for it back until the game crumbled.
It sorta does not matter what feature you do it with, be it trade, experience, or drops. Extreme shifts in the game like that are just never good.
So it makes sense that the devs are extremely cautious with what they put out there, because if not it will create false expectations, and experiences that are not intended.
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Thanks for remembering us 
Yeah, I can agree, we have seen the effects already:
We have seen this happening in PoE, where the devs didn’t want the game to become a screen cleaning speed-running game, and that one aspect couldn’t be taken out of the game.
Also they envision “crafting” are just slot machines with currency, and they f’d up with Harvest, so they are destroying this mechanic by bits patch after patch, because of the huge impact it caused, they can’t simply get rid of it in one patch without losing a good chunk of the playerbase.
Yeah, that’s why EHG are so hesitant to add stuff that they aren’t sure is absolutely the direction that they want to take LE in, if they did but it didn’t work (for them) then taking it away would feel really bad for the people who loved it.
Exactly, one of my suggestions was to do an AH as a “league-specific” thing with the intention of removing it after the league ended, but that still runs into the issue you talk about above. Sadly.
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One thing that this survey didn’t really allow me to convey is the following idea.
Disclaimer : I have no idea how to implement (as in, actual design of the system) this in practice, but if the question is “what do you want for trading in Last Epoch ?”, this is my answer.
The best TLDR of it I can give is : I don’t really care to play with people, I just want to be able to trade with a selected few.
In longer words, some kind of Group Find. To take an example from Path of Exile (yet again), think, very small private league (hard to say how small, 5 ? 10 ?). At character creation, you select a few people (account/characters, more on that distinction later) with whom your character is “allowed” to trade with, without having to play with them. This allows me to play alone, on my own time, without having to schedule being able to play at the same time as others, but if I get an item I can’t use but that could be really useful for my friends’ builds, then I can just give it away to them.
I feel like this would not warrant a huge (if any) reduction in drop rates, could still consider some limitations : the ones I like the most are not being able to trade items that are already crafted on (but if say I send an Exalted to my friend, they can craft on it ofc), including legendaries, nor idols/shards (maybe runes ?).
Having it done at character creation avoids the problem of “I’ll just wait until I really need some very important item, and add that specific person who has that item to trade with them”. There is an issue with shared stash too, the system would be easily circumvented otherwise, maybe traded items become character bound ?
Like I said, lot of technical issues to figure out with an idea like this, however I feel like it isn’t really far from what EHG wants for trading ?
I’m a non native speaker and I have my troubles with writing english but I understand it pretty well most of the time. That wall of text can be understood in many ways depending how optimistic or pessimistic you are. If there was a short definitive statement like “Gifting is a placeholder system for now and we are working to find better/other solutions.” a lot of troubble could be saved.
Instead we had something that could have been written by a political party because it’s widely interpretable from: “There will be no trade and they try to cover it!” to “That’s it for now more to come.”. They should either translate their announcements or make clear statements as black and white as possible.
So no trade is a possibility still And nothing get altered all to much 
? As stated above pretty please be more black and white in official statements so non native speakers have an easier time.
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I’m sorry, I can’t provide any more information. We don’t have the information about what will happen yet so I can’t share it. I’m not sure how much more clear we can be.
Here is all the concrete information at this time:
0.9 will have the item gifting system as previewed in the last 2 multiplayer events.
1.0 will have a yet unknown system.
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